Dog Bites Man--a national crisis - Page 2

11-21-2004, 10:38 PM

Basset rescue is an amazing, wonderful, selfless, beneficial thing (I did it for over 10 yrs. and spent thousands of dollars of my own money on my fosters with no reimbursement). But, there are those "bunny-huggers"(no pun intended) that believe all Bassets, no matter how aggressive, deserve a 4th and 5th chance, years of unadoptable confinement to boarding kennels and thousands of dollars spent on behavior modification and pet psycologists. There is a limit on what you SHOULD do in cases of aggression in Bassets. If a dog is deemed dangerous and with reasonable behavior modification untrainable, the humane and ethical thing is to put it down. And not all behavior issues arise from "poorly" (ie: non-BHCA member bred Bassets). I fostered about 40 Bassets, almost all of which were "poorly" bred (with a few exceptions) and only 1 I thought should have been euthanized. He was not, by the decry of higher ups than me. Take care, Belinda.

Signed: Belinda Lanphear
Edited to comply with Politics Forum guidelines

[ November 22, 2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ]

pinehawk · 11-22-2004, 08:49 PM

don't you people know anything about how to stop a dog from biting!!! you give the dog a Aspirin!!!

shallhb · 12-08-2004, 04:30 PM

This is only partly related to dog bites man, but it might be part of the same thing--poorly socialized dogs and people not being realistic about them. This year there have been two incidents at OBEDIENCE trials near my home where male dogs have attacked other (male) dogs without provocation. In the most recent incident, the handler of the attacked dog apparently had to go the hospital (ER, I think) to get her thumb repaired. I know the owner of the dog in the last incident, and she had told me on several occasions that her dog just likes to 'visit with other dogs and flirt with the females'. I don't know if this is occurring more than it used to--I've not heard of this occurring around here before, but it certainly is troubling when you and your peace-loving basset are participating.

[ December 08, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: S. Hall ]

jenispeidell · 12-09-2004, 12:14 AM

Everyone seems to be blaming the shelters and rescues. Dogs bite - that's a fact humans have to live with.

Take a look at the questions new basset owners ask. Everything they should know BEFORE getting a dog - feeding, housebreaking, chewing, weight, etc. It's great that they ask the questions and have more experienced people to answer them. But what about those people who don't ask? Those people who go out get a puppy, then dump it because it peed in the house? Or chewed on their shoe?

Pointing fingers and blaming people trying to help the pet over-population problem isn't going to solve anything. Educating first time pet owners BEFORE they have a problem would help, in my opinion.

Jennifer Speidell

shallhb · 12-09-2004, 12:47 AM

Hi--
I wasn't thinking about rescues or shelters at all when I posted. Most dogs in Obedience trials are not from rescues. In fact, many are carefully chosen just to excel in competitive obedience, and some are bred to do so. My point was that dogs may not be getting the basic socialization they need these days, no matter where they come from, or what their pedigree is, and also, that their owners may not be realistic about the potential for their dog to be agressive. I was also thinking that this shouldn't be happening at Obedience Trials, of all places, which are supposed to show 'the partnership of people and dogs working together', or something like that.

12-09-2004, 10:38 AM

Sharon wrote:

Quote:

I know the owner of the dog in the last incident, and she had told me on several occasions that her dog just likes to 'visit with other dogs and flirt with the females'

IMHO
I don't think this is a socialization problem. I think its a training problem. Years ago competitive obed dogs were taught that "visiting" other dogs resulted in extremely unpleasant consequences (from their owner, not the other dog). They completely understood that even the ultimate reward of "flirting with females" wasn't worth the punishment they had no doubt they'd receive if they made the wrong choice.

I AM NOT!!! suggesting that we go back to beating our dogs for inappropriate behavior, but I do think that a lot of today's training methods are so ambiguous that its not possible for a dog to learn what behaviors are or are not allowed.

"LambiePie, it hurts mommy's feelings when you do that, but I understand if you just can't control your urges.").

Unfortunately, when you're talking about crowded conditions like a dog show, or group stays, a dog that doesn't clearly understand that NO!! means NO! (whether its the aggressor or is "just being friendly") is a danger.

BTW, I've joined the ranks of those who'd like to see the AKC do away with the group stays. . . after having Rebel attacked during group stays a few years ago and now training a truly small dog (Border Terrier), I've formed the opinion that safety is far more important than "proving" my dogs are well trained by taking off their leashes and leaving them alone with dogs who might be a bit unclear on the concept.

[ December 09, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: DebHatt ]

shallhb · 12-09-2004, 03:04 PM

Hi--I agree that the group stays should go. I've always leaned towards keeping them because Bassets (at least in my limited experience--one) seem ok about staying (once you convince them that going down on a sit-stay is not a good choice), and the traditional obedience breeds are so focused on their handlers that they lose it when the handler leaves, and break the stay one way or the other. Seemed like it sort of leveled the playing field. But I've had a change of heart--I agree with you--they should go--it just isn't worth it. If they want a stationery exercise in Open, they should move the moving stand down to Open (We're good at that, too, if you recall the Nationals <vbg>
I think No! means NO is part of socialization, too, just as much as being around other dogs, so maybe we are saying the same thing. The other thing I see is alot of weird psychologizing around dog's motives--not problems reflecting past abuse in a rescue which are often very real, but things like, "Fluffy tried to bite the judge because the judge had a clipboard, and I dropped a clipboard on her toe once when she was a puppy."

[ December 09, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: S. Hall ]

11-21-2004, 10:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis Basset rescue is an amazing, wonderful, selfless, beneficial thing (I did it for over 10 yrs. and spent thousands of dollars of my own money on my fosters with no reimbursement). But, there are those "bunny-huggers"(no pun intended) that believe all Bassets, no matter how aggressive, deserve a 4th and 5th chance, years of unadoptable confinement to boarding kennels and thousands of dollars spent on behavior modification and pet psycologists. There is a limit on what you SHOULD do in cases of aggression in Bassets. If a dog is deemed dangerous and with reasonable behavior modification untrainable, the humane and ethical thing is to put it down. And not all behavior issues arise from "poorly" (ie: non-BHCA member bred Bassets). I fostered about 40 Bassets, almost all of which were "poorly" bred (with a few exceptions) and only 1 I thought should have been euthanized. He was not, by the decry of higher ups than me. Take care, Belinda. Signed: Belinda Lanphear Edited to comply with Politics Forum guidelines [ November 22, 2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ]

11-22-2004, 08:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
pinehawk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Cassville,N.J. Posts: 936	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis don't you people know anything about how to stop a dog from biting!!! you give the dog a Aspirin!!! __________________ </font>[list]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

12-08-2004, 04:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
shallhb Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis This is only partly related to dog bites man, but it might be part of the same thing--poorly socialized dogs and people not being realistic about them. This year there have been two incidents at OBEDIENCE trials near my home where male dogs have attacked other (male) dogs without provocation. In the most recent incident, the handler of the attacked dog apparently had to go the hospital (ER, I think) to get her thumb repaired. I know the owner of the dog in the last incident, and she had told me on several occasions that her dog just likes to 'visit with other dogs and flirt with the females'. I don't know if this is occurring more than it used to--I've not heard of this occurring around here before, but it certainly is troubling when you and your peace-loving basset are participating. [ December 08, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: S. Hall ] __________________ Sharon Hall Grace (puppy in training) Bella, UD, VER, TD, RE, CGC Pearl,UD, TDX, RE, CGC (Waiting at the Bridge) Samantha, Theodore, CGC, Louella, Zeke and Arty, Bassets All; (All Waiting at the Bridge)

12-09-2004, 12:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
jenispeidell Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 110	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis Everyone seems to be blaming the shelters and rescues. Dogs bite - that's a fact humans have to live with. Take a look at the questions new basset owners ask. Everything they should know BEFORE getting a dog - feeding, housebreaking, chewing, weight, etc. It's great that they ask the questions and have more experienced people to answer them. But what about those people who don't ask? Those people who go out get a puppy, then dump it because it peed in the house? Or chewed on their shoe? Pointing fingers and blaming people trying to help the pet over-population problem isn't going to solve anything. Educating first time pet owners BEFORE they have a problem would help, in my opinion. Jennifer Speidell __________________ Mom to Zippy - http://www.dogster.com/?47620 Flash Grrtrude - http://www.dogster.com/?47614 Rochester - http://www.dogster.com/?47706 Foster Mom to Chandler - http://www.dogster.com/?86897

12-09-2004, 12:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
shallhb Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis Hi-- I wasn't thinking about rescues or shelters at all when I posted. Most dogs in Obedience trials are not from rescues. In fact, many are carefully chosen just to excel in competitive obedience, and some are bred to do so. My point was that dogs may not be getting the basic socialization they need these days, no matter where they come from, or what their pedigree is, and also, that their owners may not be realistic about the potential for their dog to be agressive. I was also thinking that this shouldn't be happening at Obedience Trials, of all places, which are supposed to show 'the partnership of people and dogs working together', or something like that. __________________ Sharon Hall Grace (puppy in training) Bella, UD, VER, TD, RE, CGC Pearl,UD, TDX, RE, CGC (Waiting at the Bridge) Samantha, Theodore, CGC, Louella, Zeke and Arty, Bassets All; (All Waiting at the Bridge)

12-09-2004, 03:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
shallhb Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Dog Bites Man--a national crisis Hi--I agree that the group stays should go. I've always leaned towards keeping them because Bassets (at least in my limited experience--one) seem ok about staying (once you convince them that going down on a sit-stay is not a good choice), and the traditional obedience breeds are so focused on their handlers that they lose it when the handler leaves, and break the stay one way or the other. Seemed like it sort of leveled the playing field. But I've had a change of heart--I agree with you--they should go--it just isn't worth it. If they want a stationery exercise in Open, they should move the moving stand down to Open (We're good at that, too, if you recall the Nationals <vbg> I think No! means NO is part of socialization, too, just as much as being around other dogs, so maybe we are saying the same thing. The other thing I see is alot of weird psychologizing around dog's motives--not problems reflecting past abuse in a rescue which are often very real, but things like, "Fluffy tried to bite the judge because the judge had a clipboard, and I dropped a clipboard on her toe once when she was a puppy." [ December 09, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: S. Hall ] __________________ Sharon Hall Grace (puppy in training) Bella, UD, VER, TD, RE, CGC Pearl,UD, TDX, RE, CGC (Waiting at the Bridge) Samantha, Theodore, CGC, Louella, Zeke and Arty, Bassets All; (All Waiting at the Bridge)

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