murraysmom

Yesterday, the Pa. House of Rep. passed H.B.Bill 2525 181-17. This bill provides for minimim floor space for kennels,annual vet checks, bans wire floors for adult dogs, requires access to outdoor exercise area twice the size of their kennel,and eliminates cage stacking.

Companion H.B. 2532 was voted on unanimously in favor. This provides that only vets can perform Caesarean births, tail docking, and de-barking. It allows Bureau of Dog Law enforcement to enforce anti-cruelty statutes in counties where there are no humane-society officers.

These bills head to the Senate next week where we are expecting a difficult fight.

I'll keep you all posted.

pinehawk

well it's ok if they target JUST the puppy mills but they will not,if you are a hunter/field trialer or show breeder you have to abide by the same rules,whats good for you is good for me will not cut it. http://www.espomagazine.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17829 the gentleman that wrote this in on the Gov.advisery(sp) board on this matter and is a active and knowledgeable breeder/field trialer in Penn. Billy Milko President Susquehanna Basset Hound Club and Member of the Lebanon County Beagle Club.

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Dean

This is typical of the tactics in PA--- more legislation that won't be enforced!!!!!! We have enough laws to shut down all of the bad puppy mills, but there is no or very poor enforcement

"Let's write new laws to control the puppy mills" -- the tragic thing is that the public buys this approach ---- just like gun control--- those new laws won't work either -- Happy Harry's gun shop in the back alley has a very simple version of paper work -- you put paper in his hand and he puts a gun in yours

One difficulty with puppy mills is defining a puppy mill --- unfortunately these new laws don't consider the small breeder or the hunter

murraysmom

Well, of course you know I disagree with you on the need for new laws. Right now in Pa. it's legal to do all kinds of things to dogs : keeping them 24/7 on wire floored cages that mutilate their feet, and that are stacked in dark barns so high that the inspectors can't look into the cages, no temperature or cage size or excersize requirements, euthansia by shooting and drowning, de-barking by shoving a metal pipe down their throats, "surgery" performed to extract pups at birth that is no more than butchery with no anesthesia- Dean, you live here so you know these things are legal in this state.

At least if the law is on the books, there can be an attempt at enforcement- these guys sure aren't going to stop these practices out of altruism.

As far as enforcement, a big part of this issue for the sporting groups seems to be that it IS being stepped up- I read the post Billy linked to, and it seems that what the poster is terrified of is huge fines for sporting dog owners, having his dogs confiscated- "big brother" coming into his home to persecute him- these things are just not going to happen, but it's hard to argue with such raw fear-

None of us 'whack jobs' (quote from the Gibble post) want to hurt the sporting groups.

Mikey T

It is the unintended consequences, What is not imporant is the intention, what is important is what actually well happen. Please ,we have all seen it enough times not to have reasonable suspection especial when the majorty of such regulation is written by groups with an agenda to end pet ownership. They do it one step at a time. To rely on the government to make rational decision about to to go after with any law is well simply irritional bpart of the legislative process is to control just that and not rely on the descrition of others. This leads to disciminitory inforcement which is not right either.

All one has do is look at the history of Massachuesetts House Bill 5092, how the how resonable bill is userpt with an attempt to ram rod it through without public comment is under way, to understand the fears are justified.


After reading the actual texted of the legislation I do believe there is a lot that needs fixing <a href="http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2007&sessInd=0&bill Body=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=2525&pn=4322" target="_blank">HOUSE BILL
No. 2525 PRINTER'S NO. 4322</a>

Including but not limited, tag wearing requirements and exceptions, kennel definintions. time frame to optain a kennel licences when one goes from not being regulated to being Requirments, burdens on private kennels and foster homes etc. I can say this legislation would certain cause me not to foster or be a foster home in PA because of the the requirement and relinquishment of basic civil rights to do so.
It also make unlawful the transfer of dogs into the state from other resuce and orgainzation even when no fees are involved without having an out of state dealers liciense. which is something that was fairly routinely done to spread burden from puppy mill seizures and the like. The act prevent the state ever from transfering dogs siezed to appropriate breed specific rescues There is much to dislike about this legislation. ERven on the commercial side it is over the top on some requirement. Especially heating and cooling limits that are poposterious and not based on the heath, wealfare or even comfort but more so to make it economically infeasable to run. Limits that are stricker than imposed for house humans.

Michael Tefts

murraysmom

Respectfully, that's not what's going on here. This is pretty much a grass roots movement. For example, United Against Puppy Mills was established in 2005 by Helen Ebersole,a local acquaintance of mine- she just got tired of what goes on here in Lancaster County with the puppymill industry and decided to do something about it.

That being said,I'm glad you and Billy and Dean have posted- this is not a simple situation and it's important for people to understand some of it's complexities.

Mary Gottfried

pinehawk

Mary,i think the "whack jobs" Mr.Gibble would be referring to would be PETA,ALF,etc.remember what the PETA members did in Virginia i think it was Newport News not to long ago. they to me are just as bad as some puppy mills operators. i'm not for the puppy mill people by any means,but i get a bad feeling they could and will target sporting dog/show breeders, have a neighbor that doesn't like you make a call to the cops saying you are abuseing your dogs and in they come. if they ever came to some field trial grounds they may feel that all the dogs there are not being kenneled to "their" law and take all the dogs on the grounds.i hate to say this but if that was to ever happen i can tell you there will be some people getting very bloody and i do not think the dogs will be going any where Billy Milko

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Betsy Iole

Mary, what do you think the prospects are for enforcement of new regulations, as compared to enforcement of current regulations?

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Betsy, Mom to
CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Caper UD RE TD BHCA-VC
CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Cuppa Joe TD
CH Bugle Bay's AllUCanEat Buffet CDX RN TDX NA CGC BHCA-VCX, 1996-2008
"Bugsie" UDX NA NAJ CGC, 1991-2006

murraysmom

See my post of 9/4 regarding the Federal law suit being supported by puppymill interests:
According to Bob Yarnall, President of the American Canine
Association, Inc.: "Since 2006, the Governor has directed the Pennsylvania Department of
Agriculture to target commercial kennel operators and to find reasons to shut legitimate
businesses down. " So there is a definite perception by the big breeders that enforcement has been stepped up over the past couple of years.

On 8/16, Rendell announced his intention to increase the dog law enforcement staff by 13, including a veterinarian. His intention is clearly to step up enforcement of existing laws, and any new laws that are passed. Will this happen? I think with increasing public awareness and demand for change, the chances are good.

While some folks, like Dean and Billy and Mike think enforcing existing laws will be enough, I still feel strongly that new laws are needed: my response to Dean's post above discusses why.

When I gathered signatures for a petition to change the dog law in 2006 at a dog walking trail in Philadelphia, just an hour away from Lancaster, alot of folks didn't even know what a puppymill was- I don't think that's the case today. We are getting alot of national attention now in Lancaster County :Oprah did a show on what's going on here a couple of months ago, and my understanding is that Ann Marie Lucas will be doing an "Animal Cops" segment soon. Increasingly the people in this state are demanding a stop to the horiffic cruelty and routine abuse that goes on in the puppymills around here. No matter what the outcome for this bill, one effect of all this is increased public awareness of where the cute little puppy in the petstore comes from.

As I said in my last post, this is not a simple issue. And there are strong feelings on both sides.

I'll keep posting as things unfold.

Mary Gottfried

pinehawk

Mary,how about "enforcement" of the existing laws? They can and will go after the little people in this "new law" and will,mark my words. Don't be suprised if it passes that you hear of more dogs being shot by the operators of puppy mills,thats just the way they treat livestock and that's how the dogs are looked at by the puppy mill owners.my dogs are just that dogs,but with a little different way of living,i take them out on training runs and hunting,bathe them get the best medical care i can get them,feed them a quaility food,fresh water,clean kennels and housing.My kennel cost me $5000.00 and it is way over board compared to some others i've seen.i spend a lot of time with them in the yard and the field( ask my wife,she swears i love those dogs more than her ,and she maybe right!) and my dogs could be taken from me with the way this "New Law" is written.I don't live in Pa. yet and may not if the law goes through(thank goodness i live in New Jersey,never thought i'd say that) but i field trial in Pa.hunt in Pa.and i'm a member of a Beagle Club in Pa. and these are the people that will pay the price for the new law. Billy Milko

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