PMDS.....not well known by owners or vets - Basset Hounds: Basset Hound Dog Forums
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PMDS.....not well known by owners or vets

Just learned about this online...never heard of it before...basically, a normal looking male, who may be fertile, might just have a UTERUS. This may be attached to the urinary tract, and become infected and require surgery. As many owners, and vets don't know about this, it can go on undiagnosed are not properly treated. Most are asymptomatic, but if a male has abdominal pain and re-current UTI's this might be a possibility. Here is a link to read more....Just posting so others might be aware of this.
http://www.houndsbaybassets.co.uk/im...s_symptoms.pdf

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Old 02-17-2017, 01:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Am fully aware of it.
Both of my dogs have/had the/an alleged carrier in their lines & am informed by those with more knowledge than myself that it's in a large % of UK lines & some breeders are mentioning it in their web sites.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Although I've heard of it (many years ago) at the moment it's virtually nonexistent in North America. However, I believe that will change soon with the recent popularity of importing European bred dogs.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In the initial study they found the first dogs they dealt with had Beacontree Calender on both sides of the pedigree....later they found that several generations back Calender apparently got the gene from Chrochmaid Bold Turpin of Blackheath....

"Additional entries and the data base. With the accumulating results of the investigations, it was found that Beacontree Calender got the PMDS gene from her great-great-grandfather Crochmaid Bold Turpin of Blackheath. Bold Turpin was imported from America in 1958 to provide new blood into the diminished English population that had survived World War II. The trail of PMDS could even be followed further back."

This goes back to early stuff that is behind a great deal of the US breeding as well....

So it is quite possible there are affected dogs in the states NOW, but agree with more Euro imports, this will soon be more apparent. Only a small percentage are affected, and many show no symptoms until there is an infection present. The males appear normal physically, and are fertile....so unless tested you might never know it is there.

Turpin's Pedigree Attached:
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PMDS.....not well known by owners or vets-chronchmaid-bold-turpin-blackheath.jpg  
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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As approximately half of the males with PMDS are either uni-laterally or bi-laterally cryptorchid & Otto is/was the latter it has had me thinking over the past years.
Sadly there're enough problems within the breed, that I'm appalled when breeders (not all admittedly, but enough & even well known established lines) ignore health & genetic concerns.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I did a 6 gen reverse pedigree on Calender in my database, and let me just say the number of ROM's in that result leaves no doubt in my mind that it IS in the U.S., and is going largely not noticed...or not mentioned.
Beacontree Calender was foundation line for one European kennel, and has relations on both sides of "the Pond". Encourage a google search for Beacontree Calender.....

I agree, there are too many breeders who don't want to acknowledge health and genetic concerns. You don't have to NOT breed a carrier, (preferably don't breed to another carrier), but now the progeny CAN be tested before being bred....a matter of weeding out the gene.....not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

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Old 02-18-2017, 04:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Admittedly I don't know a lot about it, but OTOH, if most "affected" dogs go through life with no issues, to the extent that nobody knows they even have it, is it a problem? FWIW, I have not heard of a dog here with the condition. Probably there have been some, but I would think not a lot so far.
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundtrack View Post
Admittedly I don't know a lot about it, but OTOH, if most "affected" dogs go through life with no issues, to the extent that nobody knows they even have it, is it a problem? FWIW, I have not heard of a dog here with the condition. Probably there have been some, but I would think not a lot so far.
And this is why some breeders tend to bury heads in the sand in terms of problems that are in the breed, like it or not. I heard it was being said that 'it's not life-threatening' so why worry' ......... trouble is IF the dog ends up needing surgery, there's risk (life threatening?) right there. I know how wrong it would be to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' in terms of shutting down a good line on the basis of a few potential affecteds (what about the carriers!!) but I'm afraid in recent years, breeders are no longer good 'stockmen', who generally knew when to outcross and when not to. So very quickly an occasional problem, becomes a real problem.

Incidentally Bold Turpin may have been useful at the time he was imported (in 1960 - he gained his UK title two years later) in terms of widening the gene pool but the fact is he wasn't used that much in the UK - Lyn Mar Acres Dauntless was by far the more successful stud dog over here, in roughly the same era (imported in 1959 but he never gained his UK title). The French imports after the War were also more significant than Bold Turpin turned out to be. George Johnston importing Hercule de L'Ombree in 1959 - released from quarantine a few months ahead of Dauntless.

And the work done in Holland, by Wim Sluiter, was based on the fact that one of his (pet) dogs was found to have this condition and so began his DNA research.

Happy btw, to have provided PE with the pedigree info back of Beacontree Calender and lots of others

ps I would also be careful about 'naming names' on a public forum like this - law suits have been started for less.

https://www.vetmed.umn.edu/departmen...-duct-syndrome
This from a general website - so PMDS IS known in the breed and in other breeds (vets - breeders!).

Add - here is another link to an undated article written by Wim Sluiter
http://www.norskbassetklubb.no/webdo...NALYSISpdf.pdf

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Old 02-19-2017, 08:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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So as a Breeder are you saying that if it doesn't appear to cause 'too' many issues & doesn't show, that it's not really a problem?
To who, you or the dog?
Does that apply to other none too obvious genetic concerns?
Reminds me of being told that it didn't matter that Otto was bi-laterally cryptorchid, I didn't want to breed from him, did I? But it's not always that simple, Otto's were deep in his chest & looked as if he'd been unzipped.
As a breeder who regularly uses this forum to post litter pictures & updates of any achievements, appalled, that breeders openly choose to ignore problems within their lines it's no wonder that so many breeds are suffering.
You've previously posted that no breeder can guarantee a really good example of the breed, no, but producing pups when health tests are ignored or even worse ignoring genetic problems is immoral, & would hope legally untenable.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Intention of the post was to make people AWARE that this is a possibility in ANY Basset. If you have a MALE dog with urinary tenderness in the abdomen you should have it checked. ALSO I am hoping people will take a moment and TELL YOUR VET ABOUT THIS. The dog you save might not be yours! Please spread the word about this...apparently there are cases even in Labradors....and vets simply don't consider it because it is rare.

As mentioned above, about 50% are cryptorchid and in fertile males, the sperm count is low....Also, in addition to infection, the dogs are also at increase for urinary incontinence and have an increase in cancers. All of which are a big deal to an owner (and dog) affected with PMDS. PLEASE MENTION THIS TO YOUR VET.
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