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Advice for "crooked" front leg

40K views 30 replies 12 participants last post by  thedovesoars 
#1 ·
Hello fellow fur lovers! Im new to the site. I own 2 bassets..Roscoe and Reese. Both just turned 1. The vet said they both have angular limb deformity. Reese's right leg is very noticably "crooked"..for lack of better words. Seemed to start showing around 7 months and has gotten worse. Shes not in pain and it does not slow her dow. She has to keep up withher crazy brother Roscoe lol. Luckily we have a ranch style so not to many steps for heShould i be worried? Who else has had experience with this? Thank u!
 
#2 ·
My Cooper also has a crooked front leg. He is now 1 year 9 months. He had a spell of very slight limping as a pup, but it didn't last long. It doesn't bother him at all now, though I can see it is less stable when he is sitting with his hind legs to one side. We are leaving it alone.

Others posting about this type of issue generally recommend not doing anything unless it is bothering the dog. Most vets are not familiar with Basset bones, and may want to do surgery when it really isn't needed. No surgery is going to un-basset a basset's legs, and the recovery is long, difficult, and painful. If you do seek orthopedic care or opinion, make sure it is someone VERY familiar with basset hounds. Check with your local BH club for recommendations. Good luck!
 
#4 · (Edited)
we first noticed a problem with sophies front leg at about 5 months. vet initially thought pano /xray inconclusive. treated with nsaids/pain meds.

waxed and waned but at about 9 months, markedly worse deformity and leg would buckle. was on pain meds daily. revisit to vet yielded a referral to the university vet hospital and ortho specialist.

all due to premature closure of growth plate with adjacent bone continuing to grow resulting in the deformity, elbow incongruity and deformity at the paw.

was corrected with surgery. she is WONDERFUL now. no pain and can walk, run etc. the surgeon was fantastic...lots of experience with bassets.

everyone has different stories and different degrees of deformity. For our girl, this was the only option. We are so very grateful for the surgeon's skill. recovery was 5 weeks cage rest (she was ready to rip and run after 4 days!) so a very easy recovery. She was off of the post op pain meds rather quickly.
 
#5 ·
The vet said they both have angular limb deformity.
nearly alol basset have angular limb deformity to some degree as straight legs are more of a fault in the breed than crooked one. As Sk point oit it is a matter of degrees. most angular limb diformities require no intervention however if sever enough then surgery will reduce pain and othe problems long term,. It is why you need a vet with experience in the basset breed when making such decisssion and even then secomd and third opinions should be gathered,
 
#6 ·
I'm another one who believes that most vets don't understand Basset legs and how they grow. Sometimes surgery is necessary, but most of the time it is not. I've seen plenty of Bassets with very deformed fronts who lived normal pain-free lives. The average vet is much to quick to reach for the knife in these cases.
 
#7 ·
I too am basically against surgical correction, UNLESS the animal is in constant pain, continually lame. Unfortunately I went through this premature closure of the growth plates, ulna both sides, thing with my current last Basset who was a buy-in. After x-ray to find out exactly was going on with him being lame, around 8 months (and yes I did fear pano, which it wasn't) we discussed the options re surgery and the vet, who specialises in bones and knows all about Bassets (so that was one hurdle I didn't need to overcome!!) said that even if he did go in, at that young age it would probably need to be done again as the other bones grew. His lameness ended, although he does have more turn out than I'd hoped for (and which has prevented me from going back into the ring which I'd hoped to do - much as actually I've seen worse in there!!:( ) So I'm glad I didn't put him through any surgery.

The only thing I would say is there is the possibility of arthritis setting in later on. But if any surgery you had done wasn't 100% successful, that may be going to happen in any case.

I would suggest that each situation is individual so provided you have a Basset-aware vet, and not one who is after money either, I'd be guided by his opinion but yes, if it ain't broke ............ :D
 
#8 ·
I would suggest that each situation is individual so provided you have a Basset-aware vet, and not one who is after money either, I'd be guided by his opinion
could not agree more, can't make diagnoses on-line at best can give you some guidelines,

and if you do not have a vet that meets the discription above, it is a good time to look for one that does,
 
#9 ·
the right vet/surgeon is indeed paramount.

while our ortho surgeon corrected the right leg problem surgically, he told us the problem in the left leg was minor and did not need surgical correction at least at this time.

point is, we were not even aware of a deformity in the left leg (right was so bad, left looked normal) now we can see the minor deformity and again, are grateful for the surgeon only operating on what needed surgical correction.
 
#10 ·
Basset with diagnosed OCD and Pano

Hi everybody!
I'm new to this forum and joined because although I have had dogs all my life, I am a first time Basset owner. Digby will be 1 year old this month and started limping on front legs at 8 months old. The limp has jumped from one foreleg to the other with limping lasting approx 2 weeks on each side. Crepitus was detected in each elbow also. Xrays were taken and ortho vet has diagnosed OCD in both elbows with the onset of osteoarthritis visible. Elbow incongruity has occurred due to premature closure of ulna growth plates. Pano is also present although I'm not concerned about this as I know this will resolve at skeletal maturity.

Ortho vet is experienced in Bassets and other chondrodystrophoid dogs and has said Digby's problem is mild therefore he would not advocate surgery. I have been advised to use conservative management through restricted exercise, rest and weight control with the use of NSAID's as and when necessary.

My vet recommended putting Digby on Royal Canin Mobility food so that he benefits from the green lipped mussel in this food to help with his arthritis. Digby has been on this food for 10 weeks now. Does anyone have any experience of using this food for ortho reasons? Digby was weaned on Royal Canin Maxi Junior by the breeder and I kept him on this until the switch to mobility food.

Digby has never been over-exercised and is not allowed up stairs and he is lifted in and out of the car. He has never suffered any type of trauma. He has a ramp to get down the steps to the back garden. I did all I could to "Basset-proof" my property before bringing him home. He is only ever walked on grass.

My vet has recommended short walks on the lead from now on. I would be very interested and grateful to hear from other owners/breeders who are living with Bassets with same or similar problems regarding lifestyle for Digby since he will have this problem for the rest of his life.

Many thanks

Lorna - Digby's mum :)
 
#11 ·
so that he benefits from the green lipped mussel
I have used glycoflex which is a supplement with green lipped mussel not sure it made any difference and while intial studies were promising subsequent ones have not been.

Perna canalicula
Studies have found that Perna canalicula inhibits the 5-lipoxygenase pathway, which leads to the formation of leukotrienes. Many of the products of these pathways have inflammation-supporting properties.[citation needed] However, a systematic review of current scientific research on supplementation with Green-lipped mussel suggests a lack of compelling evidence for its use in humans with inflammation associated arthritis.[3]
New research hails NZ green lipped mussels as a super food

A new scientific trial found that more than half of all patients who took the freeze-dried mussel powder, produced by a Christchurch firm, had knee joint pain "significantly reduced".
which sound great until you look at other research the Gian NIS study on gluocosimine found a full 60% of partcipant that took gloucosimine had significant reduction in knee pain problem is 60% of those taking a placebo also had significant reduction in knee pain hence it was determend that goucosomine was no better than placebo at reducing moderate knee pain, severe knee pain results were inconclusive. It is unlikely there would be any adverse effect from including green lipped muscles in the diet so from that stand point if it does not work it only cost money,

the most signifant thing you can do is keep digby weight in check . and exercise moderate exercise is important for arthritis muscle strength helps support the joints and reduces problems.

as far as anything you did to cause the problem it is unlike but nutritional excess can be a cause of such problem ie being overweight or excessive consumption of calcium but unless you used a calcium supplement or fed a lot of dairy that is unlikely as well
 
#13 ·
Thanks Mikey. Yes I've read articles on the ambiguous benefits of the green lipped mussel products. However, I have took the vet's advice and put him on Royal Canin Mobilty food but I can't say I have noticed a difference. It's expensive food but has a good reputation. I have never given dairy products or calcium supplements. Digby is attending vet every month now to have his weight monitored as they would like him to stay at 63lbs. Vet also said to keep him on lead during his short walks. Feel like that is very restrictive because he is such a healthy and energetic dog.
 
#14 · (Edited)
FWIW, and this is purely my personal opinion.....

When my Kermit was diagnosed with a neck injury, the vet wanted me to severly limit his lifestyle. No running, short leash, no furniture, the whole nine yards. He too was an energetic and active dog, even though he was somewhat older at the time. I decided that making him live like that would be cruel *for him*, even though the vet warned that he could end up quadriplegic. So although I retired him from obedience (jumping), and made sure he kept fit, once he was done his course of crate rest I basically let him continue to live a normal dog life. He lived to be 13 with no further problems.

I would be careful while he is still growing to avoid further damage, but once he is done - I would let him be a dog and take our chances. Your mileage may vary. Know your dog.

I often think vets are overly pessimistic.
 
#15 ·
Thanks Soundtrack. Opinions vary on this but my gut instinct is to let him be a dog too! I had been doing recall training with him off lead before his diagnosis of OCD/arthritis. Digby will be 1 yr old in two weeks. I have never over-exercised him. First few weeks of bringing him home from his breeder he only went as far as the back garden. After that I only gave him 5-10 mins on grass where I practiced recall. He does more sniffing at bushes and trees than constant walking so that's why I felt keeping him on lead all the time was a bit restrictive. He still has episodes of limping and during these phases I don't walk him, he only goes out the back. It's good to talk to other Basset owners to get opinions. Thanks so much for posting :)
 
#16 ·
Speaking of which, I hope you are also talking with the breeder about this.
 
#17 ·
Yes, I've kept breeder informed every step of the way. Sent her the xrays too so she could get her vet's opinion and a second ortho opinion. I'm in constant touch with her but it's also good to talk to lots of owners/breeders. Digby is the only Basset I've ever owned so it's been very educational and interesting talking to others also :)
 
#18 ·
"Digby was weaned on Royal Canin Maxi Junior by the breeder "

Boy did I pick up on this one. Guess what - my Frankie was weaned onto this food too. See what I have already written about him on this thread.

Pano is undoubtedly there in some bloodlines and I know his breeder had a previous litter, from similar (not the same dogs) bloodlines as Frankie's sire. So I went down that road too much as his lameness wasn't creeping, and there was no pain, although he was lame so must have been feeling something. X-rays ruled that out however.

I'd just say I'd NEVER touch RC because to me, it's far too high in protein for this breed. Unfortunately breeders often get sucked into all this hype when it's far better for puppies of this breed to come on steadily. Not be forced to look like adults at 6 months.
 
#20 ·
I'd NEVER touch RC because to me, it's far too high in protein for this breed
Studies have shown conclusively and multiple times protein levels do not contribute to orthopeadic conditions in young and growing dogs nor does it contribute to renal failure in older dogs. As a matter of fact because older dogs are less efficient at using protein so they actual require more as they age to maintain muscle mass.


Protein while it has the same caloric content as carbs is virtually never used for energy and never stored as fat. Excess is excreted. It does not contribute to weight gain which is a big risk factor for developmental orthopeadic condition. Now most hi protein foods are High fat as well and Fat has twice the calories as carbs so while not a problem per say if weight and portions are not controlled it can lead to excessive weight and a problem.

For what its worth I only feed Higher protein foods n o less than 27% and even higher when participatiang in dog sports. Higher protein levels have been demonstrated to reduce the incident of soft tissue injuries in sled dogs when training, Significantly.
 
#21 · (Edited)
'K Mikey - you have obviously read different articles to the ones I have, to say nothing of EXPERIENCE. And I am talking about rearing puppies, not having older/working dogs on a high protein food. Each to their own but for sure 32% protein didn't do much for Frankie ..... and I've never fed that high a level of food to those pups I reared, and never had the problems he had (much as again, some of it could have been in his bloodlines, and not in mine).

Further, my vet, who specialises in bone problems and did the full x-rays on my hound, was in full agreement with my thoughts on the subject.
 
#22 ·
tlaking about puppies if you found studies demean protein level they are old, Just sayin

Developmental Orthopedic Disease - Knuckling Over

Hip Dysplasia in Dogs Linked to Improper Diet[/url\
— and made worse by excessive dietary calcium3 or overfeeding during the puppy phase of life4.
For more in-depth information about this controversial subject (including references and footnotes), you may wish to visit our article, “Best Puppy Foods“.

Large Breed Puppy Food
by scepticvet
Protein
Many breeders and pet owners, as well as some veterinarians believe too much protein can contribute to developmental skeletal disorders in large breed puppies, but this is incorrect. An early study [5] observed orthopedic problems in dogs fed diets high in calories, protein, and calcium, but subsequent studies clarified that protein is not a risk factor for any of these problems.[13]

...5. Hedhamer A, Wu F, Krook L, et al. Overnutrition and skeletal disease: an experimental study in growing Great Dane dogs. Cornell Vet. 1974;64(1; Suppl 5):59.

...13. Nap RC, Hazelwinkel HAW, Voorhout G, et al. Growth and skeletal development in Great Dane pups fed different levels of protein intake. J Nutr. 1991;121:S107-113.



Growth and skeletal development in Great Dane pups fed different levels of protein intake

Seventeen Great Dane pups, 7 wk of age, were divided into three groups. During 18 wk each group received isoenergetic dry food (approximately 15 kJ metabolizable energy/g) containing 31.6, 23.1 or 14.6% protein on dry matter basis. No differences were found among the high (H-Pr), normal (N-Pr) and low protein (L-Pr) groups for the height at the shoulder. Significant differences were found between the H-Pr and L-Pr groups for body weight and plasma albumin and among all three groups for plasma urea. The differences in protein intake per se had no demonstrable consequences for calcium metabolism and skeletal development. A causative role for dietary protein in the development of osteochondrosis in dogs is unlikely.

Optimal feeding of large breed puppies
Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS
Resident, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital​
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

Many nutrients have been studied to determine which components of these diets cause problems. Over 30 years ago a significant amount of data was published that established a connection between improper nutrition and a variety of skeletal abnormalities in Great Danes, including hypertrophic osteodystrophy, osteochondrosis dissecans and 'wobbler' syndrome. The experimental diets varied in protein, energy density, and minerals, and it was unclear which factor or combination thereof contributed to the developmental bone diseases observed in the initial studies (Hedhammar, et. al. 1974). The same group went on to investigate the individual dietary components and demonstrated that dietary protein level had no effect on the development of osteochondrosis (Nap, et. al, 1991). For some reason, dietary protein level continues to be incriminated by some owners, breeders, and veterinarians, despite the lack of supportive evidence.
In contrast to protein, excessive calories and inappropriate amounts of calcium have both been shown to negatively influence optimal skeletal development in puppies. While overnutrition in adult dogs leads to obesity and can lead to serious health problems such as cardiorespiratory disease, we recognize other problems in puppies that result from the same practice of overfeeding. It is necessary to feed the puppy enough to allow for controlled growth, but it is equally important to avoid overfeeding. Many people believe that a round puppy is a happy healthy puppy. However, maximal growth is not optimal growth. Adult size is principally influenced by genetics; however, the time
to reach adult size can and should be controlled by proper nutrition. Excess calories can predispose large breed puppies to developmental bone disease, including hypertrophic osteodystrophy (Dammrich, 1991).
While any food has the potential to cause problems with skeletal development if overfed or supplemented, maximal growth in puppies is commonly occurs with feeding a highly palatable, high energy density growth diet. These types of diets are often overeaten if fed on a free choice basis, or simply too much is fed on a meal basis.
red added for emphysis.
 
#23 ·
Relationship of Nutrition to Developmental Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs
Unlike other species, protein excess has not been demonstrated to negatively affect calcium metabolism or skeletal development in dogs. Protein deficiency, however, has more impact on the developing skeleton. In Great Dane puppies, a protein level of 14.6% (dry matter basis) with 13% of the dietary energy derived from protein can result in significant decreases in bodyweight and plasma albumin and urea concentrations.9,10 The minimum adequate level of dietary protein depends on digestibility, amino acids, and their availability from protein sources. A growth food should contain > 22% protein (dry matter basis) of high biologic value (Table 1).11 The dietary protein requirements of normal dogs decrease with age.

Best puppy Foods
Doesn’t Higher Protein Content Cause
Hip and Joint Problems?​


No, but overfeeding does.
Contrary to popular belief, hip dysplasia and skeletal diseases in dogs are not related to dietary protein2. They’re much more likely the result of genetics3, excessive dietary calcium4 or overfeeding during growth5.
Studies have clearly demonstrated the greatest risk of developing skeletal problems later in life is directly linked to overfeeding — allowing a puppy to eat all day on demand (free feeding).
To greatly decrease the risk of your dog suffering the ill effects of serious growth problems, avoid leaving your puppy’s food in the bowl all day long.
Serve measured amounts… on a regular schedule.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Repeated - "Each to their own but for sure 32% protein didn't do much for Frankie ..... and I've never fed that high a level of food to those pups I reared, and never had the problems he had (much as again, some of it could have been in his bloodlines, and not in mine)."

Frankie was not 'free fed', and neither have any of mine.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I wonder how much protein is vegetable protein with RC? Veg protein is in no way as good as animal protein - it doesn't have the essential amino acids. Sorry to be a plob but the protein source for development must be based on animal protein??? So if you see 32 percent protein - is this animal or a lot of veg protein? ? Just wondering? I feed mine a lot of animal protein - more than 32 percent.
 
#26 ·
Hello, I have a 9 month old girl named Lucy Mae. She just had the surgery for angular limb deformity that was causing her pain and dislocation in her elbow joint. I was hesitant about doing the surgery but I didn't see her getting better, just worse. Here is a picture of her coming home from the hospital.
 
#27 ·
Some breeders get carried away with calcium given to bitch and/or puppies which may cause problems.A friend of mine felt switching 6-8 week old puppies to an adult food would prevent pano what I saw were puppies much smaller than they should have been and when I got Esa put her on puppy food her growth was much better the co-breeder of the litter could not believe it was his dogs sister because she was big ,his was small. This is all possibly in the lines of the dog you have.What I have discovered ,and it isn't anything new,is that you have to be careful how you grow these dogs. If you are feeding too much,not enough,not the right food,giving vitamins,calcium,protein, all this,if a dog seems to be growing too fast put him on adult a bit earlier than usual,these are not simple dogs to grow because of the way they are built. Just my 2 cents.
 
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