Well-bred vs. inbred - Page 3

Mikey T · 02-25-2004, 11:43 PM

"while quite numerous and varied between breeds, are relatively limited within breeds. We may be trying to close the barn door after the horse has escaped."

It is why a number of advocates an learned people Like Ray Coppinger advocate breeding for function with an open registry rather than a closed registry.

The AKC recognises AMHB (Association of Masters of Harriers and Beagles) in England. Fischer's father was an English Import. From the Harrier Club of America Web site
[quote]Harriers can also be registered in the appendix of their stud book if only one parent is registered. Offspring of appendix hounds appear in the regular stud book. Many of these "foundation" Harriers were in fact small Foxhounds with parents from recognized Foxhound kennels. Some of these foundation Harriers appear in top winning Beagle pedigrees, so "Harrier" often defines type of hunting and size of hound rather than pedigree in AMHB packs. The practice of breeding to Foxhounds still occurs in England and is reflected in the pedigrees which follow later in this Volume.[/url]

Another interesting note, Harriers which originated in England are not part of the KC.

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this breed has not been exhibited in England, for many years, the Kennel Club, England has not included a standard of the Harrier in the published list of "Standards of Breeds".

"The points of the modern Harrier are very similar to those of the Foxhound. The Harrier however, is smaller than the Foxhound; the most popular size is 48-53 cms (19-21 inches)".

The focus on function rather than appearance and regular but not frequent outcrossing with other similar breeds might be the reason for these conclusion reached in Harrier Health Information

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Overall, Harriers are a very healthy breed and normally live 12-15 years....

Harrier has very few genetic issues of which we are aware. ...

eye disease are uncommon ...

Mikey T · 02-25-2004, 11:54 PM

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but it seems like shopping for sires from other reputable breeders, rather than continuing to line breed one's own dogs, on a regular basis would thin each breeder's gene pool in a good way.
I'm sure I'm oversimplifying here, but are people reluctant to do that because outside dogs represent greater unknowns than those within their own programs? Is it just ego -- I want to breed the best basset ever, and I want it to come exclusively from my lines? Something else?

It is a oversimplication of the issues to suggest that frequent and consitent outcrossing increases genetic deveristy. In actuality it can have the opposite effect and create a less diverse homoginized gene pool. From one of my earlier posts but bears repeating
Popular Sire Syndrome and Concerns of Genetic Diversity

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The perceived problem of a limited gene pool has caused some breeders to discourage linebreeding and promote outbreeding in an attempt to protect genetic diversity. However, it is a fallacy that each dog must carry the diversity of the breed. Studies in genetic conservation and rare breeds have shown that this practice actually contributes to the loss of genetic diversity.

By uniformly crossing all “lines,” or families of dogs in a breed, you eliminate the differences between them, and therefore the diversity between individuals. This practice in livestock breeding has significantly reduced diversity and caused the loss of unique rare breeds. The process of maintaining separate lines, with many breeders crossing between lines and breeding back as they see fit, maintains diversity in the gene pool. It is the varied opinion of breeders as to what constitutes the ideal dog, and their selection of breeding stock that maintains breed diversity.

A basic tenet of population genetics is that gene frequencies do not change from the parental generation to the offspring. The gene frequencies will remain the same regardless of the homozygosity or heterozygosity of the parents, or whether the mating represents an instance of outbreeding, linebreeding, or inbreeding. If some breeders outbreed, and some linebreed to certain dogs that they favor while others linebreed to other dogs that they favor, then breedwide genetic diversity is maintained.

The loss of genes from a breed’s gene pool occurs through selection: the use and non-use of offspring. If a popular sire is used extensively, gene frequencies, and the gene pool can shift towards his genes, limiting the breed’s genetic diversity. On the other hand, dogs that are poor examples of a breed should not be used simply to maintain diversity. Related dogs with desirable qualities will maintain diversity and improve the breed.

Breeders should concentrate on selecting toward the breed standard, based on ideal temperament, performance, and conformation, and should select against the significant breed-related health issues. If breeders continually breed healthy, superior examples of their breed and avoid the popular-sire syndrome, the genetic health of the breed can be maintained.

[ February 25, 2004, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Toughynutter ]

02-26-2004, 08:43 AM

"..a border collie that drools alot" ....he, he, he. It's all about the trainers as far as Bassets and obedience goes, just like Deb said. You have to understand what motivates your Basset and you have to work out a training schedule that works for the both of you. Food and fun!! And it is possible to have a hunting Basset that is also an obedience Basset (Molly is titled in both), but you can say good-bye to competing in outdoor obedience trials. And pray no jumpy, little yappy dogs walk by the ring on the long sit and down! Take care, Belinda.

[ February 26, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Belinda ]

02-26-2004, 08:43 AM	#23 (permalink)
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Well-bred vs. inbred "..a border collie that drools alot" ....he, he, he. It's all about the trainers as far as Bassets and obedience goes, just like Deb said. You have to understand what motivates your Basset and you have to work out a training schedule that works for the both of you. Food and fun!! And it is possible to have a hunting Basset that is also an obedience Basset (Molly is titled in both), but you can say good-bye to competing in outdoor obedience trials. And pray no jumpy, little yappy dogs walk by the ring on the long sit and down! Take care, Belinda. [ February 26, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Belinda ]

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