I miss my little guy....

mayflower · 02-18-2004, 02:51 PM

I know some won't agree but this week we have sent Dexter over to a friend's house for "studding".

(I guess he fell in love on Valentine's day). When we took him there and he got a whiff of her, it was like he forgot who we were.

Betsy Iole · 02-19-2004, 09:42 AM

Food for thought...first, nothing against Dexter, but NO responsible breeder would breed dogs not registered with either the AKC or Canadian KC. Second, when Dexter comes home, his mind will likely be on "other things". He'll always be looking for the next bitch in season, and will try to dig, climb, or chew his way out, to get to her. Lastly, stud dogs don't generally tolerate other male dogs as part of the family. If a bitch is obtained from this breeding, spaying her before her first season will prevent an accidental father-daughter breeding.

lnrider · 02-19-2004, 12:13 PM

I just wanted to say, I'm sorry that you're missing your guy. I'm sure you can't wait for his return.

mayflower · 02-19-2004, 12:16 PM

Thanks for putting this message in the right category. Sorry about that. We are still planning on having Dexter neutered. As soon as this "litter" is finished. Dexter IS registered. And so is the female. But Dexter is registered with the Continental Kennel Club and Lilly is with the Canadian Kennel Club. I had just mentioned about offspring, however at the present time, we are not considering taking on another dog. I am very aware of interbreeding and wouldn't take any chances of that occuring. I even went as far as to check Lilly's pedigree to make sure that these two dogs were no way related. We are very responsible pet owners and have all our other pets fixed. Just that Dexter wasn't at this point and decided to let him father a litter first (and only time). It breaks my heart to see so many homeless pets and I wouldn't want to contribute to this mess. All these pups are spoken for and they will be going to family members of the female, and who surely want to own a Basset hound but aren't as lucky in our territory to be able to adopt one.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my posting, I just wanted to share my experience with you all.

[ February 19, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Dexter's Mom ]

Betsy Iole · 02-19-2004, 04:05 PM

Continental Kennel Club is one of the many "registries" favored by puppy mills and BYBs. Continental KC advertises itself as "The All Breed "Hassle-Free" Kennel Club". Registration is cheap, easy, and unregulated. Responsible breeders don't use Continental Kennel Club; to them a dog with Continental Kennel Club registration is pretty much the same as an unregistered dog, because offspring of a dog with Continental Kennel Club registration only are not eligible for AKC or Canadian Kennel Club registration.

See also

CKC & APR: Today's "In" Registries for PuppyMillers
Differences in Kennel Clubs
About Dog Registries and Kennel Clubs

[ February 19, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ]

joanr · 02-20-2004, 06:39 AM

Don't think I'm jumpimg on you, but some things to consider are....The pups you and this lady will have, might be returned. And you'll have to be ready to take the new dogs back any time. In 6 months to 10 years someone might want to return the dog for what ever reason.

And will they all be fixed? Or in the future your newspaper could have ads like," cute basset pups cheap, free basset mixes to good homes only, and lost 2 dogs look like bassets" A few years ago I would have said basset are rare to my area, but they have snowballed, and those ads are in the paper. Also the shelter has more bassets, and basset mixes. Can you get a contract to state all the pups will be fixed? Can you be sure this lady won't be breeding one or two of these puppies? Dexter could be a greatgrandpa in no time.

I hope both dogs are free of all genetic problems, and are old enough to know they are really healthy.
Joan

mayflower · 02-20-2004, 11:52 AM

I'm sorry if I misled you guys about this situation. This lady who had decided to breed her female Basset, isn't new to this stuff. She used to breed German shepherds and Chiuauas over her lifetime (She showed me here old contract forms) and she still guarantees her offsprings. She hasn't used her kennel for a while for breeding, but decided to do this one time with her Basset. She does have contracts made up, (I've read & signed), for owners that they must have pups spayed/or neutered, guarantees of health, return, the contracts also say these pups are in no way to be sold to a second party or neglected (vet checks) etc. She is an experienced breeder but hasn't been in what I call "business" for a while. She's also not out for the almighty "buck".
Our vet was aware of this beforehand. And he gave the go-ahead. Stating that both dogs are in excellent health (signed papers for proof).
I didn't feel like posting all the ins and outs of this in here. Just wanted to let you know that Dexter may father a litter.
But if you need to know, this procedure is being done as professionally as possible. As far as the Canadian KC is concerned, they will register the pups and all is agreed upon.

When we bought Dexter (second owners), I frowned upon the fact that he wasn't with a recogonized club, but we weren't going to neglect this dog just because of where he was registered by his breeder. That alone doesn't necessarily make him a bad breed.
This is in no way going to be a "back-yard" breeding or mill!
I hope I have cleared up this matter for you and have no hard feeling towards this topic. I do understand the hardships of dog breeding in this world and shun upon anyone who isn't as responsible with their animals as they would be with their own children.
Thanks for your concerns.

Betsy Iole · 02-20-2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

As far as the Canadian KC is concerned, they will register the pups and all is agreed upon.

I'd be interested to know more about this. I just double-checked with the Canadian Kennel Club and was informed categorically that they don't recognize the Continental Kennel Club--no way, no how.

biscuit · 02-20-2004, 04:00 PM

Dexter's Mom, I've been watching this thread with more than a little dismay.

And much as I hate to say it, your last post confirms for me the breeder is likely a basic BYB who has learned just enough lingo to squeeze through the categories.

I also wonder if you realize this is about more than the sheer massive overpopulation of dogs. Bassets are very highly bred critters --- they're very inbred, in other words --- and without a good knowledge of genetics and full knowledge of the genetics of each pup, you're running some pretty scary risks --- glaucoma, for one.

And you're running these risks at a much higher rate than there is in mutt populations or even human populations (except for isolated inbred groups of people).

I know that from the very first moment I laid eyes on Biscuit, I thought he was the most beautiful doggie in the world. And I thought that - well, i still think it. But he was also a structural nightmare - everything way too exaggerated on a tiny body, and the most fiddle fronted pup I've ever seen.

But it took me years to even see or understand that the very things which made him so very charming were also potentially disastrous faults. Esp. for a breed which is so very inbred.

Notto mention, even if that area has no bassets now, they will likely be overrun very soon, just like most of the US, thanks to breeders looking for their place in underrepresented markets.

Betsy Iole · 02-20-2004, 04:19 PM

Sounds like maybe it's time for links discussing the topics of responsible breeding vs. backyard breeding. This is a harder distinction to define and understand than responsible breeding vs. puppymill, which tends to be more clear-cut.

First link is to BHCA's Health Policy. Bassets can be affected by several genetically inherited diseases that don't show up until a dog is middle-aged or older, well beyond the time s/he may have been used for breeding. Glaucoma is probably the breed's worst problem in this regard. This is why a simple vet check before breeding is inadequate to determine whether a basset should be used for breeding. The Health Policy lists those screening tests that can identify bassets that may be carriers for these diseases or that may be predisposed to developing these diseases later in life. From A Comparison of Responsible Breeders and Backyard Breeders

Quote:

FAILURE TO TEST/SEARCH FOR INHERITABLE HEALTH PROBLEMS IS THE NUMBER ONE MARK OF A BACKYARD BREEDER. IT IS ALSO THE MOST DAMAGING TO CANINES, AND THE MOST HEARTBREAKING TO PUPPY-BUYERS, WHO END UP WITH YET ANOTHER GENERATION OF POOR-QUALITY DOGS WHO TOO OFTEN DEVELOP EXPENSIVE, EARLY HEALTH PROBLEMS AND OFTEN DIE PREMATURELY.

Here are some more general links on the subject of responsible breeding vs. backyard breeding.

Breeder Definitions
Are You a Backyard Breeder?
The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses

And here is a thoughtful discussion of responsible, ethical breeding

Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder

[ February 20, 2004, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ]

02-18-2004, 02:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
mayflower Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 455	I miss my little guy.... I know some won't agree but this week we have sent Dexter over to a friend's house for "studding". (I guess he fell in love on Valentine's day). When we took him there and he got a whiff of her, it was like he forgot who we were. __________________ Coreena & Dexter the Basset... (who's mastered the "look" to win my heart) Born Feb. 8, 2003

02-19-2004, 09:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
Betsy Iole Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 4,901	Re: I miss my little guy.... Food for thought...first, nothing against Dexter, but NO responsible breeder would breed dogs not registered with either the AKC or Canadian KC. Second, when Dexter comes home, his mind will likely be on "other things". He'll always be looking for the next bitch in season, and will try to dig, climb, or chew his way out, to get to her. Lastly, stud dogs don't generally tolerate other male dogs as part of the family. If a bitch is obtained from this breeding, spaying her before her first season will prevent an accidental father-daughter breeding. __________________ Betsy, Mom to CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Caper UD RE TD BHCA-VC CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Cuppa Joe TD CH Bugle Bay's AllUCanEat Buffet CDX RN TDX NA CGC BHCA-VCX, 1996-2008 "Bugsie" UDX NA NAJ CGC, 1991-2006

02-19-2004, 12:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
lnrider Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Louis, Mo, USA Posts: 1,410	Re: I miss my little guy.... I just wanted to say, I'm sorry that you're missing your guy. I'm sure you can't wait for his return. __________________ Lesleigh, Momma to the Brown boys, Leroy and Cooter

02-19-2004, 12:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
mayflower Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 455	Re: I miss my little guy.... Thanks for putting this message in the right category. Sorry about that. We are still planning on having Dexter neutered. As soon as this "litter" is finished. Dexter IS registered. And so is the female. But Dexter is registered with the Continental Kennel Club and Lilly is with the Canadian Kennel Club. I had just mentioned about offspring, however at the present time, we are not considering taking on another dog. I am very aware of interbreeding and wouldn't take any chances of that occuring. I even went as far as to check Lilly's pedigree to make sure that these two dogs were no way related. We are very responsible pet owners and have all our other pets fixed. Just that Dexter wasn't at this point and decided to let him father a litter first (and only time). It breaks my heart to see so many homeless pets and I wouldn't want to contribute to this mess. All these pups are spoken for and they will be going to family members of the female, and who surely want to own a Basset hound but aren't as lucky in our territory to be able to adopt one. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my posting, I just wanted to share my experience with you all. [ February 19, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Dexter's Mom ] __________________ Coreena & Dexter the Basset... (who's mastered the "look" to win my heart) Born Feb. 8, 2003

02-19-2004, 04:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Betsy Iole Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 4,901	Re: I miss my little guy.... Continental Kennel Club is one of the many "registries" favored by puppy mills and BYBs. Continental KC advertises itself as "The All Breed "Hassle-Free" Kennel Club". Registration is cheap, easy, and unregulated. Responsible breeders don't use Continental Kennel Club; to them a dog with Continental Kennel Club registration is pretty much the same as an unregistered dog, because offspring of a dog with Continental Kennel Club registration only are not eligible for AKC or Canadian Kennel Club registration. See also CKC & APR: Today's "In" Registries for PuppyMillers Differences in Kennel Clubs About Dog Registries and Kennel Clubs [ February 19, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Betsy Iole ] __________________ Betsy, Mom to CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Caper UD RE TD BHCA-VC CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Cuppa Joe TD CH Bugle Bay's AllUCanEat Buffet CDX RN TDX NA CGC BHCA-VCX, 1996-2008 "Bugsie" UDX NA NAJ CGC, 1991-2006

02-20-2004, 06:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
joanr Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: escanaba,mi.usa Posts: 1,968	Re: I miss my little guy.... Don't think I'm jumpimg on you, but some things to consider are....The pups you and this lady will have, might be returned. And you'll have to be ready to take the new dogs back any time. In 6 months to 10 years someone might want to return the dog for what ever reason. And will they all be fixed? Or in the future your newspaper could have ads like," cute basset pups cheap, free basset mixes to good homes only, and lost 2 dogs look like bassets" A few years ago I would have said basset are rare to my area, but they have snowballed, and those ads are in the paper. Also the shelter has more bassets, and basset mixes. Can you get a contract to state all the pups will be fixed? Can you be sure this lady won't be breeding one or two of these puppies? Dexter could be a greatgrandpa in no time. I hope both dogs are free of all genetic problems, and are old enough to know they are really healthy. Joan

02-20-2004, 11:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
mayflower Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 455	Re: I miss my little guy.... I'm sorry if I misled you guys about this situation. This lady who had decided to breed her female Basset, isn't new to this stuff. She used to breed German shepherds and Chiuauas over her lifetime (She showed me here old contract forms) and she still guarantees her offsprings. She hasn't used her kennel for a while for breeding, but decided to do this one time with her Basset. She does have contracts made up, (I've read & signed), for owners that they must have pups spayed/or neutered, guarantees of health, return, the contracts also say these pups are in no way to be sold to a second party or neglected (vet checks) etc. She is an experienced breeder but hasn't been in what I call "business" for a while. She's also not out for the almighty "buck". Our vet was aware of this beforehand. And he gave the go-ahead. Stating that both dogs are in excellent health (signed papers for proof). I didn't feel like posting all the ins and outs of this in here. Just wanted to let you know that Dexter may father a litter. But if you need to know, this procedure is being done as professionally as possible. As far as the Canadian KC is concerned, they will register the pups and all is agreed upon. When we bought Dexter (second owners), I frowned upon the fact that he wasn't with a recogonized club, but we weren't going to neglect this dog just because of where he was registered by his breeder. That alone doesn't necessarily make him a bad breed. This is in no way going to be a "back-yard" breeding or mill! I hope I have cleared up this matter for you and have no hard feeling towards this topic. I do understand the hardships of dog breeding in this world and shun upon anyone who isn't as responsible with their animals as they would be with their own children. Thanks for your concerns. __________________ Coreena & Dexter the Basset... (who's mastered the "look" to win my heart) Born Feb. 8, 2003

02-20-2004, 04:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
biscuit Senior Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: oklahoma Posts: 5,234	Re: I miss my little guy.... Dexter's Mom, I've been watching this thread with more than a little dismay. And much as I hate to say it, your last post confirms for me the breeder is likely a basic BYB who has learned just enough lingo to squeeze through the categories. I also wonder if you realize this is about more than the sheer massive overpopulation of dogs. Bassets are very highly bred critters --- they're very inbred, in other words --- and without a good knowledge of genetics and full knowledge of the genetics of each pup, you're running some pretty scary risks --- glaucoma, for one. And you're running these risks at a much higher rate than there is in mutt populations or even human populations (except for isolated inbred groups of people). I know that from the very first moment I laid eyes on Biscuit, I thought he was the most beautiful doggie in the world. And I thought that - well, i still think it. But he was also a structural nightmare - everything way too exaggerated on a tiny body, and the most fiddle fronted pup I've ever seen. But it took me years to even see or understand that the very things which made him so very charming were also potentially disastrous faults. Esp. for a breed which is so very inbred. Notto mention, even if that area has no bassets now, they will likely be overrun very soon, just like most of the US, thanks to breeders looking for their place in underrepresented markets.

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