Mikey T

We appear to be be breeding two distinct and separate forms of hounds. While the breed standard was developed as the "ideal" physical specimen to preform the tasks the basset was bred for, many breeders of hunting
stock feel they know better. While their dogs do not conform to the breed standard they believe their dogs are more physically suited to the job. Or, in other cases, don't care one bit what the hound looks like, only that it can hunt. While many conformation breeders don't give a darn whether their dogs can hunt or not. Many believing the hunting instinct only gets in the way of showing the dog.

How do we expect to improve the breed when breeding for two separate and distinct traits instead of melding the traits into one superior dog. We are told by professional breeder the importance of showing the dog to prove it's worthyness as breeding stock. Very few conformation breeder prove their dogs in field trials or other hunting tests. The same can be said of field trialers who's dog never see a breed ring. If the purpose of field trial is to find more eligible breed candidates, the reason neutered and spayed dogs can not compete. Why are dogs that would
summarliy disqualified from the breed ring allowed to compete? In order to unify our goals in breeding better dogs, should a requirement for a CH be at least one point in a field trial and likewise should a FC require at least one point in conformation? Is the breed standard truely the physical "ideal"? Do the rules of field trials encourge breeding of dogs that do not meet the breed standard? Are our own rules hindering the improvement of the breed?

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Worlds slowest agility dog

biscuit

wow!
great questions!!

I must admit, I'm dying to hear what breeders have to say - Biscuit (hound of uncertain origins) is fast as lightening, although his conformation is - well, best left unmentioned!

Once, however, I was in a Petsmart and a woman came by and said "Oh! a field basset! I haven't seen one of those in years!" Her aunts and uncles used to breed and raise them apparently. with as fast and energetic as he is, believe me, I wouldn't be surprised. I've also run into hunters in the past who've been quite taken by him.

am very curious and can't wait to read this thread!

RKL

IMHO, field trialing is a performance event, no different than tracking, obedience or agility. I see no legiitmate reason to bar neutered and/or ILP dogs from competing.

Did you know that field trialing is the only event in which a lame dog is not automatically disqualified?
In conformation, and all other performance events, a dog which is limping is dismissed from the ring and a report made to AKC. I have seen dogs in field trials that are so badly crippled in the front as to walk on the tops of their feet. These dogs would make it as meat hunters, which is what hunting ability is supposed to be about.

I don't care if the field trial dogs conform to the breed standard details that appeal to the eye. I do care that too many breeders for the field ignore basic qualities of soundness.

As for the conformation dogs being able to hunt, training for the field requires access to suitable training grounds. Few of us have that available. Yet many conformation dogs prove the quality of their noses in tracking trials. Witness that the FIRST Tracking Champion in the entire hound group is a Basset Hound.

As the popularity of ARHA grows and BHCA develops a hunting test, I believe that more conformation people will get their dogs, even if it's the pets they sell, into the field.

Off my soap box.

Stephanie

If the criteria for improving the breed is the production of a Basset Hound that can succeed in both the breed ring and the field I believe that over the years we have improved the Basset.

I started in Bassets in 1966. At that point there was one Basset who had both the field and breed chanmpionships. Today there are many more dogs holding that honor. I have seen the results of a speciality show where the Best of Breed winner came from the field trial classes. There are many Bassets working on their field titles who are finished breed champions. I believe that there are many people such as myself who would be more active in field trialling if it was a geographical possibility. Unfortunately the closest Basset field trial to me is over 800 miles away. The only opportunity I have to enjoy the field trial is at the National speciality.
Very few Bassets have earned Hunting Titles simply because this is not a title offered by the AKC. One speciality club (Timberline) has offered Hunt Test matchs. Hopefully more clubs will take up those tests and the test will become an AKC reality.
I have seen the quality of the field dogs improve over this time as well. The first Nationals I attended was in 1982. Many of the dogs were as RKL has described. At Nationals this year I saw many 'field' dogs that. with a little work would be extremely competitive in the breed ring

Dean

Absolutely right. There is a need for breeders to produce bassets of good quality and capable of doing what they were bred for originally. Many of the show winners could not run any distance and some field trial dogs are being bred to barely be able to move at faster than a walk, because that is what the judges want. Neither one is a good basset!!!! I try to watch conformation in my field dogs, which is why my dogs do not do as well as they could. I refuse to create unsound dogs to win. Showing a basset is somewhat the same, judges are supposed to ignore scars which are from field work, but do they? Why should I have to wear a suit to have a chance to win?
Recently I have become very active in the American Rabbnit Hound Assoc. We register only 3 breeds (beagle, basset, harrier), conduct rabbit hunts and conformation shows. At a basset hunt, the dogs are released in small packs and they have to hunt for their rabbit. At most hunts, there is a conformation show. To enter the show, a hound must run in the hunt. These hounds are often muddy, tired and sometimes have bloody ears when judged. Our goal is a good sound hound capable of running rabbits for extended periods.
See Celeste Gonzalez's comments in the performance forum or check ARHA.com.
Dean Wickwire- pabasset@mail.com-610-942-2840
There will be an ARHA hunt in Denver, Pa on June 4. All bassets, even neutered, are welcome.

Betsy Iole

Three of my CH/CD/TDX/NA basset's grandparents are DC's. You bet your life I'd try running her in the field if I had access closer than 600 miles away! In the past, it's been suggested to me to just "show up and enter" her at a field trial. If there are any western field trialers monitoring this forum, would you care to offer an opinion on that suggestion?

[This message has been edited by Betsy Iole (edited 03-29-2000).]

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Betsy, Mom to
CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Caper UD RE TD BHCA-VC
CH Bugle Bay's Sin City Cuppa Joe TD
CH Bugle Bay's AllUCanEat Buffet CDX RN TDX NA CGC BHCA-VCX, 1996-2008
"Bugsie" UDX NA NAJ CGC, 1991-2006

Odin's Mom

What are some of the conformation differences between field bassets and breed ring hounds? I am new at this and am curious about what people have seen. I agree, having seen the effects of bad conformation and the resultant unsoundness in horses, that it is essential to breed for correct conformation no matter what the animal will do with his/her life.

Are the field bassets taller/shorter? Longer/shorter ears? Long bodies or shorter than breed ring hounds? Heavier or lighter, on average? Tendency to be fiddle-fronted or cow-hocked behind?

(Hope I'm not the only one who doesn't know this stuff!)

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Julie

biscuit

hey, you ain't!

Biscuit (fast as lightening and quite the jumper!) is fiddle-fronted and very heavy boned. I've read tho that field bassets are usually lighter boned and have long legs, meaning -- well,I don't know what that means.

I should have asked that lady in Petsmart why she thought Biscuit was a fieldhound, as the little I've read doesn't sound like him at all.

curious here ... okay guys-who-know, spill the beans for us basset naifs!

Dean

OK, here goes-- this is guaranteed to ruffle feathers. GENERALLY SPEAKING, show dogs are larger, and not as lean as field dogs. Field dogs are leaner, thinner and leggier. There are show dogs which are in good shape and there are field dogs that could pass for show dogs. Some field dogs are bred to be slow and stylish trackers. there are breeders trying to produce all-around hounds. Many field breeders watch conformation, but some breed for nose and nothing else. Both groups are guilty of raising bassets in kennel enviroments. these pups are not socialized and generally timid. Good backyard breeders produce better pups than some top breeders, because the pups are used to being with people.
Again, this does not apply to all breeders, but it does happen.
Please don't tell me about which breeder does what, I am not referring to any one person. I have been raising, showing and field trialing bassets for many years (25 or more) and these are just my observations.

biscuit

hmm, pretty interesting. doesn't help me solve the mystery of Biscuit, but there you are. he's a shrimp, but that's not real helpful in determining these things.

I'll just have to settle for knowing he's one speedy little guy! it's all pretty interesting, tho.