Pricey

Hi all, this week I have been looking around the net at various basset clubs across the uk and the USA and just wondered if there is any difference between the breed ideology, what I mean is from what I have read the official breed standard is the same in both the uk and the USA, at least from what I can tell (I am very knew to all of this, but it interests me). However upon looking at pictures of show winners there seems a difference. From an untrained eye of which mine certainly is the judges in the uk seem to go for heavy wrinkles, very low slung to the floor bassets if that makes sense (the kind that the pedigree dogs exposed seem to dislike so much). The dogs across the pond in America seem sturdy etc, but look rather different.

So I finally get to my question are breeders in America striving for the same as the breeders in the uk?

Soundtrack

Yes and no.

The written standard leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Many people interpret it differently and/or put emphasis on different features. What style you see the most, what you are used to early on, and what you learn about the purpose of the breed and as you go along will all influence what you think is "correct". Also, there is a "pendulum"-style trend - when a feature or style goes to far in one direction, there starts to be a swing in the other direction. So what is "important" is constantly in flux.
Even in the US there can be a lot of variation in style according to region, especially if there is a dominant breeder in the area whose vision has a lot of influence.

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Mikey T

just for some clarification in the UK standard anywher it not excessive it new and the result of pressure from pedigree dogs exposed so that bit of moderation is recent in the UK standard. Secontly whe it comes to purpose the terain and rabbits wis quite different. In US if you notice especial in the east coast the cover is quite dense a struwn with falling logs so to low set or heavy becaumes an impediment to the original purpose whereas a more grass. field farm in europe the cover is not as dence or dificult so a heavy and lower set dog can still perform

Add onto that breeder that breed more for the field than conformation and you have a disparity between conformation and field dogs as well.

Pricey

Oh ok so the breed standard has been changed due to that pedigree dogs exposed thing? Has there been much change in the breed and what wins the prizes since then?

Mikey T

the breed standard changed for the KC and therefore FCI internation standard canada and USA are not part of FCI so the breed standard did not change either country. Not being from england and/or europe I not sure if it has any impact or not but many FCI countrites basset breed clubs were not happy with the KC changes but FCI rules require the breed stand is set by the country of origin for the breed and Basset hound that is England

bubbad

I have a boy from California who is very low to the ground he resembles a Euro dog in that sense. On the east coast it was easy for many to peg him as a California dog also very sturdy and heavy,Vinny is usually about 70 to 75 lbs. Esa from Flordia looks very different compared to Vinny ,not as low,although she has matured quite a bit since having puppies and has much more bulk to her now. Her normal weight is usually 65 to 68 lbs.As far as the standard goes there is no perfect dog that measures up to the standard exactly but as breeders we try hard to breed the dogs with the best qualities available to us ,to improve what we have ,and keep them all healthy at the same time. Vinny has a bad top line from his shoulders being too far forward and Esa is shown, but like Soundtrack said it is open to inturpretation.I love the Euro type but they would not fly so much in the USA shows because they are too different compared to what is over here. You develop an eye for a dog the more you see what is being shown.The show dogs will have similarities like,nice bloodhound type head,straight topline,good sturnum etc. I am as guilty as anyone that when I first see a puppy or adult I look for what is correct or not correct in my head about that dog,it just becomes habit.The more you see well bred bassets the more your eye for a dog is developed,but it can take years for a person to really be good at it. From a reputable breeder their pet quality will not look that different from their show potential puppies,small things usually, a turned out foot,low tail set etc. The breeder should be able to go over the standard with you and show you the differences. I know this post isn't about Breeders but you are only going to get a dog that looks like a basset mostly from those who are trying to breed from the standard.There will be no question if the puppy is mixed or pure bred.You will not have extra long legs or really short ears. True, there can be quirks that come out in even the best breeders litters ,but they will be honest about them,for the most part.

Pricey

Hi bubbad, I think the question is also about breeders and the differences in what they see as the "ideal" basset be it low slung, and plenty of loose skin or taller and less skin for example. I sometimes forget just how huge the USA is coming from a small county myself. So why the difference on the east coast to the west? Is is because of function and terrain etc? Or do they simply find one more aesthetically pleasing than the other?

bubbad

I think it all comes back to the inturpretation of the standard for the most part. Field dogs in general are bred with a longer leg and shorter ear,some feel there are less injuries to the dog,but then they would not be be shown because they do not adhere to the standard, on the other hand many show dogs compete in Field Trials to earn titles . I think it is in the "eye of the beholder" and that can lead from one extreme to the other. There is such a thing as too much,too much skin,(or not enough) too short of leg(or too long),too heavy,(or too light) so much so that it can interfere(by that I mean health,and the way they grow) in the dog's daily life,so the thing is to find balance which is what I believe the standard is suppose to do as a guide. The thing we breeders contend with is generational.Some puppies in a litter will resemble the grandparents or great-grandparents ,not just the parents so you can get variations in a litter.This is why pedigrees are important and if you can see the dogs in a pedigree from past generations through books or photos you will have a better idea of how the puppies should look. Potential puppy owners often do not care what a puppy's pedigree is when they should, since those genes are what makes their puppy. People who breed for money do not usually show they may have" champion lines " but often do not have any idea what those dogs in the pedigree look like,have never seen them in person or otherwise, then they like to say ,"Well ,this puppy is show quality." How do they know? Most can not explain the standard to their own puppy owners.And the new puppy owner feels like they just bought something special for a God awfull amount of money. OK,on a tangent now,I think you get the picture.

Herzo

My 2 cents worth. I also like some of the euro bassets but some of them are just to heavy looking. I like the wrinkles to a point but I like my dogs to be able to move. Some of them look as if they can't.

I know nothing about picking the best basset at a show but I do know what I like. I have looked at enough of them to know that. And a judges opinion is just that. I have shown enough in 4-H horses, cattle and sheep to know that. My mother and I showed sheep for several years after that and I don't always agree with a judge.

And then there is the politics of the thing. Righto? I guess you said it bubbad a happy medium. Here's another question, how do you feel about in breeding? I am not a big fan of it. I know it can bring about a better dog but I feel some are doing it way to much and to closely.

bubbad

My personal feelings on in-breeding(brother-sister,or any number of closerthanthis realitives) are better left to those breeders who have been doing this far longer than I have.I see a place for in-breeding, but if you don't know all there is to know about that gene pool,you can have something show up in the puppies that you didn't count on and it probably won't be good. " I know nothing about picking the best basset at a show but I do know what I like. I have looked at enough of them to know that. And a judges opinion is just that." The thing is, once you see a well bred basset(or almost any breed of dog)you will know a substandard (I did not use "Poorly " because often times the best bred bassets have faults like these) bred one when you see it .It will not look right to you,you may not know why something is the way it is,like a dog high in the rear,the problem would usually be long hocks or straight stifle(thigh bone) , a saggy topline is pretty obvious, the back of the dog dips behind the shoulders ,instead of being straight. As for Judges it is their opinion, but it is to be based on the standard, not just what they think looks nice. There are politics to some of it,you get to know which Judges are always going to put up the professional handlers,then show under someone else.