Looking fro a Basset breeder - Page 7

Kirska · 07-07-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey T

If pet overpoupulation is not a myth then it is not possible to save a dog. For every dog you save mean that one somewhere else dies instead. That means the purpose of a shelter is to cull dogs remove the old, sick, behavioral challenged ect in exchange for health, young, well adjust. Hmmm seem to be the premise of most animal shelters and hence the reason for high euthaniasia numbers It is the practice of the shelter not the reality on the ground that creates the problem.

Please seperate the feral cat population from the dog population before quoting numbers to be relevant. So what are the number of puppies purchase in the Dallas area. It is in far excess of 37,000. what you have is not a pet overpopulation problem but a marketing problem by the animal shelter. It is been demonstrated over and over again that county, city and state run shelter can be more effeciently and effective run on the no kill model but they do not do so because of lack of will.

If there were truely a pet overpopulation problem how is it possible to sell dogs in a pet store for thousands of dollars. Market conditions down allow for it.

interview with Redemption author Nathan Winograd

I'm not disagreeing that the marketing could improve. But you still have not shown any proof that overpopulation is a myth. What he has presented is a possible solution to the problem, not proof that the problem does not exist, regardless of what he wants to call it.

There are millions of dogs being killed every year. Please, tell me where the millions of people are that are wondering, "Gee, I can't find a dog!" Because in order for overpopulation to be eliminated, there would have to be people looking for a dog that can't find one. If it could only be attributed to a marketing problem, then people would exist that can't find a dog.

People pay money for pets in pet stores and from breeders because they think they are getting a better dog. Whether or not they are is for another discussion, but that's the reason. While I'm sure this guy has done great work and he certainly has some great points, people will always be willing to pay for something more fancy. If that weren't the case everyone would drive a Camry and there'd be no demand for Corvettes. Example: last time I was in PetSmart there was a lady in front of me with a puppy and the cashier asked her what kind of dog it was. She said with a pompous attitude, "Oh it's a designer breed..." A puggle or something. She can't get that kind of dog from a shelter (actually she can, but she has no proof the dog she's getting is that fancy kind).

The 37,000 number is only the city pound. There's a whole other large city (Fort Worth) and dozens of suburbs all with pounds of their own and that still doesn't count the humane societies and other kill shelters. The Dallas area number is somewhere closer to 200,000.

If all shelters nationwide adopted this practice he is describing, there would still be an overpopulation problem. Sure it would improve, but you can't deny that it a) exists today and b) can't be fixed overnight. There are too many dogs. Period. Regardless of the cause or reason or possible remedies to the situation, there are too many dogs. That is overpopulation.

Quote:

For every dog you save mean that one somewhere else dies instead. That means the purpose of a shelter is to cull dogs remove the old, sick, behavioral challenged ect in exchange for health, young, well adjust.

This is incorrect and an incredibly pessimistic view on things. Every dog that you adopt from a shelter opens up space for another to be adopted. This is especially true at a no-kill shelter where an open space will often be filled by pulling a dog from death row at a kill shelter.

And no, that's not the purpose of a shelter. The purpose of a shelter is to give dogs a home instead of having them wander the streets to starve to death, pester residents, or be hit by a car, in order to help find their original owner or adopt them. Shelters don't kill in order to get rid of the bad dogs. They kill because they have no other choice because there's too many.

Soundtrack · 07-07-2010, 12:36 PM

Interesting article on overpopulation
Is there a problem with our dog population? Ruffly Speaking: Railing against idiocy since 2004

smitte21 · 07-07-2010, 04:33 PM

Very interesting article... a good read. Perhaps those numbers do shed a light on the sitution...

hig4s · 07-07-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey T

Now one can debate what actual practice for limiting inherited defects for instance are proper or required etc but to debate the actual deffenition is pointless. The reason there is such a definition is so people can have a conherent discussion. Now if you want to argue that one should by from a BYB as a matter of course being superior or equal to buying from a Reputable breeder that is fine. But when you stray in to the arena of trying to redefine what a reputable breeder is you have crossed the line.

But again!!!!! that is totally mute as I never used the term "reputable breeder" you interjected it into the argument. I had typed a lot more, but I deleted it.. Just not worth my time.

hig4s · 07-08-2010, 10:20 AM

I guess I do have something more to say,,
There is no definition of the term "reputable breeder" except in personal opinion on the internet.

Even the AKC does not define "reputable breeder", check their glossary of terms.

I have been around dogs and breeding, both for show and hunting, for 40 years. My kid sister has been a show breeder for 23 years. This is the first place I have ever heard the term "reputable breeder" use to mean a show only breeder.

I did a search on the internet (yeah, I know, not the more reliable source) for the definition of "reputable breeder" there are two sites that say a "reputable breeder" must be a show breeder. realowner.com and here. Then there are dozens of other sites with varying opinions. One insists that to be a reputable breeder one cannot make any money on the sales of the dogs, but must only, at best, break even in the cost of being a breeder. Well I guess if you are independently wealthy that works.
Sounds like a bunch of elitist diatribe, much like I see here.

Words have definitions, put two words together does not change their meaning.

Oh and if you want to argue language, it would help if you did a little better with your spelling, punctuation, syntax, and grammar.

That's it, I'm outta here!!!

Soundtrack · 07-08-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

I did a search on the internet (yeah, I know, not the more reliable source) for the definition of "reputable breeder" there are two sites that say a "reputable breeder" must be a show breeder. realowner.com and here. Then there are dozens of other sites with varying opinions. One insists that to be a reputable breeder one cannot make any money on the sales of the dogs, but must only, at best, break even in the cost of being a breeder. Well I guess if you are independently wealthy that works.
Sounds like a bunch of elitist diatribe, much like I see here.

Depends on what sort of site you're looking at. I did a Google on "reputable dog breeder". On the first page, my first hit was the Canadian Kennel Club, which of course registers dogs from ALL breeders, so they're not going to diss anyone on their website who might be a customer. The next one is from HSUS, who thinks show dogs are retarded, unhealthy, abused mutants. Three were advertising sites, which again aren't going to diss potential customers. One was an article on a general information site, about equivalent to the quality of information you'd get in a newspaper fluff piece. The three that were actually dog related information sites said that reputable breeders compete with their dogs.

As for making money breeding and doing it right, sure, it's possible, but it's the equivalent of winning the lottery, and it's certainly not the goal, and it takes YEARS of producing quality dogs that are in high demand by canine professionals. I've lost track of how much I lost on my last litter, but it is a four digit figure. You do not expect to make money, any more than you expect to make money on any other hobby, like skiing, golf, beer can collecting or whatever.

jpkeokee · 07-23-2010, 01:51 PM

I am a basset hound breeder in Va., I do not register my puppies though. I know a lot of people will only purchase registered pups but I never cared one way or the other. We do not use our dogs for shows only as pets. Out of your four bassets only one is AKC registered.

Mikey T · 07-23-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Even the AKC does not define "reputable breeder",

Not they prefer the term responsible breeder wow a huge difference
AKC Breeder Resources
A Guide to Breeding Your Dog
Step One - Prepare Yourself for Breeding a Litter

for the internet search challenged here is a list of source with the same basic definition of "reputable breeder"

APDT

5-star dog

Harrisburg Kennel club

Dog times

Golden Treasures

Ehow

hsus

An this is only the first page. But only two sites on the the first page do not mention Confirmation showing when discusing "reputable breeders" On is a breeder refferral site that make no mention of what a reputitable breeder is the other does not mention conformation showing but it is implied in another areas see Six Steps for Finding Reputable Dog Breeders

That is as much of a consences as one will find on a single subject.

07-07-2010, 12:36 PM	#62 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,339	Interesting article on overpopulation Is there a problem with our dog population? Ruffly Speaking: Railing against idiocy since 2004 __________________ Gabby-Soundtrack Sumthin' T'Talk About Can/Am RN CCGC TT Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Lenore-Ch Soundtrack Guilty Conscience Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye

07-07-2010, 04:33 PM	#63 (permalink)
smitte21 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: WI Posts: 295	Very interesting article... a good read. Perhaps those numbers do shed a light on the sitution... __________________ Proud owner handler of AKC/UKC Ch. Olde Fashion Agent 99, CGC, TDInc. and Beauregard Smith, CGC www.savybassets.net

07-23-2010, 01:51 PM	#67 (permalink)
jpkeokee Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 6	I am a basset hound breeder in Va., I do not register my puppies though. I know a lot of people will only purchase registered pups but I never cared one way or the other. We do not use our dogs for shows only as pets. Out of your four bassets only one is AKC registered. __________________ “Whoever loveth me, loveth my hound”

07-08-2010, 10:20 AM	#65 (permalink)
hig4s Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 112	I guess I do have something more to say,, There is no definition of the term "reputable breeder" except in personal opinion on the internet. Even the AKC does not define "reputable breeder", check their glossary of terms. I have been around dogs and breeding, both for show and hunting, for 40 years. My kid sister has been a show breeder for 23 years. This is the first place I have ever heard the term "reputable breeder" use to mean a show only breeder. I did a search on the internet (yeah, I know, not the more reliable source) for the definition of "reputable breeder" there are two sites that say a "reputable breeder" must be a show breeder. realowner.com and here. Then there are dozens of other sites with varying opinions. One insists that to be a reputable breeder one cannot make any money on the sales of the dogs, but must only, at best, break even in the cost of being a breeder. Well I guess if you are independently wealthy that works. Sounds like a bunch of elitist diatribe, much like I see here. Words have definitions, put two words together does not change their meaning. Oh and if you want to argue language, it would help if you did a little better with your spelling, punctuation, syntax, and grammar. That's it, I'm outta here!!!

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