Looking fro a Basset breeder - Page 5

Soundtrack · 07-02-2010, 04:13 PM

I'm not sure why you insist on taking all arguments to extremes. I'm not saying that all rescues are projects. However, you were discussing rescuing 3- and 2-legged dogs, and dogs that WILL require special care. THOSE are projects. I was discussing soundness and how it relates to the dog's ability to be a good pet for the average family.

I did not say that adult dogs cannot be a good choice. As I said, I frequently refer people to rescue if I feel that would be their best option (BTW, you can also get an adult from a breeder). I simply object to YOU implying that buying a puppy from a good breeder is NOT a valid choice. Or at least, that's how it comes across to me. I also object to the idea that a "show breeder" is only good if you want a "show dog", when in fact they are generally breeding also for traits that make the dog a good PET. Remember, *I* have to live with dogs that I breed. I don't want a stupid dog. I don't want a dog with a poor temperament. I don't want a dog that I have to continually take to the vet, or have die young, or watch suffer. So I do my best to breed dogs that make superior pets, because that's what I want for myself, and because I want my PET puppy people to tell me later that I sold them the best dog they ever had.

Kirska · 07-02-2010, 04:55 PM

We will just have to agree to disagree.

You can buy a dog that is pretty much guaranteed to find a home anyway, or you can adopt a dog that will probably not find a home otherwise and will be one of millions of dogs killed every year if they don't. The choice seems obvious to me.

Soundtrack · 07-02-2010, 09:28 PM

It seems to me that guilt is a poor criteria for selecting a dog. If a rescue dog (or puppy - don't try to tell me that rescues never have puppies) is the correct dog for YOU and YOUR situation, great! Adopt an appropriate rescue and I'm sure you and the dog will be very happy. But if a well-bred puppy or adult from a good breeder is more appropriate for someone's situation, then there is no reason for them to feel guilty for getting a dog that meets their needs.

hig4s · 07-02-2010, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundtrack

What do you mean by "perfect" qualities? The health that comes from breeders who do testing and make careful, informed decisions when selecting breeding partners? The "head start" that the dogs get when they are raised with proper food, vet care and socialization? The fact that the dog looks and acts like a Basset should, that it has the characteristics that attracted the person to the breed in the first place? There is a lot more to what resposible breeders produce than just "show points".

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitte21

Well said.

But before you said

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitte21

. . .without some sort of objective opinion from someone of regard in the breed there is no way to know that any breeding program is worth it's salt. Now whether you choose to do that by showing in conformation or hunting, tracking or some other avenue that's fine but something needs to be dong IMO to prove that you are evaluating your breeding stock. Otherwise you are just breeding to produce pets for money and hence a BYB.

So without the objective opinion of the show points, how can you agree with Soundtrack, who seems to be saying basically the same thing I said that (that just because a breeder does not show, does not mean they are not a good breeder.) whch started you off on your show breeder only rampage.

Soundtrack · 07-03-2010, 06:14 AM

Again, "show points" are not just about beauty. If the dog moves correctly and is structurally sound, then it is better able to live an active, normal life. In breeding or evaluating seminars I have attended the majority of emphasis is on correct structure and movement.
Besides, if you have decided you want a Basset Hound, usually part of the reason is the unique appearance of the breed. I've lost count of the number of people who've asked me when their pet-quality basset will look like mine, or why their BYB adult doesn't look like mine. Sure, they love their dog, but it's not what they had wanted. If you're not interested in the qualities that make a basset a basset, then why not just get a mutt? They are also great dogs, and also need homes.
The main problem with a breeder that does not show or trial is that they are not subjecting themselves to "peer review". When you are showing/trialing your dogs, they are not only being evaluated by the judge but also by other breeders - and not just while competing. They are observing your dogs' temperament, condition, health, how you treat your dogs etc. - and not just one dog, they evaluate you based on all the dogs you bring out over time. And breeders who show/trial also have more opportunities to learn, from networking, discussions, breed club publications and seminars. The breeder who does not compete usually has only their own, usually misinformed, opinion to go on whether their dog should be bred or not.

What is a dog show? What is a dog show? | Ruffly Speaking (Cardigan Welsh Corgis, rescue dogs, and bossiness galore)

Mikey T · 07-04-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

or you can adopt a dog that will probably not find a home otherwise and will be one of millions of dogs killed every year if they don't. The choice seems obvious to me.

The basis of this premis is the pet overpopulation myth. This myth has been pretty much dispelled by Nathan Winograd and his book [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Redemption-Myth-Overpopulation-Revolution-America/dp/0979074312/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278287990&sr=1-1-spell]Redemption: The Myth of Pet Overpopulation and the No Kill Revolution in America [/ame]

One has to serious question the moral superiority that shelter animal advocates promote when they are importing disease riddled dogs from foreign countries as being superior because otherwise adoptors would seek out "evil" breeders.

There is also a disturbing trend in rescue to save a dog at anycost. Pawning off a seververly behaviorally challenged animals without full discolsure on a unsuspecting public.

[URL="http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/shifting_dogs.htm"]Shifting dogs ...... and perspectives[/URL]

IMPORTING DOGS TO FILL DEMAND IN SHELTERS

More animal shelters trade responsible conduct for media limelight by importing foreign strays for adoption

Behavior problems frequently seen in rescue animal

Behavior Problems in Rescue Animals

Training and Behavioral Problems

Quote:

Behavioral problems are the number one reason for owner turn-ins to local shelters.

Mikey T · 07-04-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Soundtrack, who seems to be saying basically the same thing I said that (that just because a breeder does not show, does not mean they are not a good breeder.)

Not what she said at all. Which is basical just because a breeder show does not mean they are responsible there are other aspects to breed than simply conformation. One can not ignore either and be called resposible. So a breeder that ignores conformation/suitabilty to original purpose is not being responsible and just as a breeder that ignores temperment or genetic health concerns is not responsible either.

smitte21 · 07-05-2010, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

But before you said

So without the objective opinion of the show points, how can you agree with Soundtrack, who seems to be saying basically the same thing I said that (that just because a breeder does not show, does not mean they are not a good breeder.) whch started you off on your show breeder only rampage.

Nope once again you are picking and choosing what you want to hear. I also stated somewhere back in the discussion thread that testing and health clearances are a great deal of it. Your arguments are nothing but picking something and taking it out of context merely to perpetuate your view and state the same thing over and over.

Elvismom · 07-05-2010, 09:02 AM

Although I run a rescue I do not believe that a rescue dog is right for everyone looking to get a new family member. We vet all our dogs, do temperment testing and try very hard to match a potential adopter up with the right dog for them. Some people, though, have expectations that we would never be able to meet. Some of our dogs have problems that may never be overcome - either physically or emotionally. We would only adopt to a person with the experience and life style to cope with those probelmes. A good rescue is probably as selective as a good breeder. Anyone whose first concern is for the animals will do their best to insure the sale or adoption is for the dog's lifetime, but will always take respsonibility for the dog if it doesn't work out. Mistakes can happen and situations can change. Luckily there are a variety of places to find a dog that people can chose the type of sale or adoption that is right for them.

smitte21 · 07-05-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvismom

Although I run a rescue I do not believe that a rescue dog is right for everyone looking to get a new family member. We vet all our dogs, do temperment testing and try very hard to match a potential adopter up with the right dog for them. Some people, though, have expectations that we would never be able to meet. Some of our dogs have problems that may never be overcome - either physically or emotionally. We would only adopt to a person with the experience and life style to cope with those probelmes. A good rescue is probably as selective as a good breeder. Anyone whose first concern is for the animals will do their best to insure the sale or adoption is for the dog's lifetime, but will always take respsonibility for the dog if it doesn't work out. Mistakes can happen and situations can change. Luckily there are a variety of places to find a dog that people can chose the type of sale or adoption that is right for them.

I agree... we at home have such a rescue who no matter what will never be over certain issues. We have had him since he was 6 months old and now that he is about 7 1/2 he still has remaining issues that will never go away in regards to the abuse he suffered as a puppy and his mistreatment. He also has an obsession with water that will never go away... we've had him tested for every problem known to man and it has come up to a psychological need to drink as he was most likely deprived of food and water when he was a puppy as when we rescued him he was very underweight as well. This obsession with drinking also causes issues with his bladder control that we will most likely never fix as he is only getting older. So he will always be forced to be confined to a crate while we are gone.

07-02-2010, 04:13 PM	#41 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,576	I'm not sure why you insist on taking all arguments to extremes. I'm not saying that all rescues are projects. However, you were discussing rescuing 3- and 2-legged dogs, and dogs that WILL require special care. THOSE are projects. I was discussing soundness and how it relates to the dog's ability to be a good pet for the average family. I did not say that adult dogs cannot be a good choice. As I said, I frequently refer people to rescue if I feel that would be their best option (BTW, you can also get an adult from a breeder). I simply object to YOU implying that buying a puppy from a good breeder is NOT a valid choice. Or at least, that's how it comes across to me. I also object to the idea that a "show breeder" is only good if you want a "show dog", when in fact they are generally breeding also for traits that make the dog a good PET. Remember, I have to live with dogs that I breed. I don't want a stupid dog. I don't want a dog with a poor temperament. I don't want a dog that I have to continually take to the vet, or have die young, or watch suffer. So I do my best to breed dogs that make superior pets, because that's what I want for myself, and because I want my PET puppy people to tell me later that I sold them the best dog they ever had. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance

07-02-2010, 04:55 PM	#42 (permalink)
Kirska Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 932	We will just have to agree to disagree. You can buy a dog that is pretty much guaranteed to find a home anyway, or you can adopt a dog that will probably not find a home otherwise and will be one of millions of dogs killed every year if they don't. The choice seems obvious to me. __________________ Mom to Anabelle and Lila, rescued ladies and Harley, Corgi/Beagle/Basset/?? mutt "Saving just one dog won't change the world, but it surely will change the world for that one dog." - Richard C. Call

07-02-2010, 09:28 PM	#43 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,576	It seems to me that guilt is a poor criteria for selecting a dog. If a rescue dog (or puppy - don't try to tell me that rescues never have puppies) is the correct dog for YOU and YOUR situation, great! Adopt an appropriate rescue and I'm sure you and the dog will be very happy. But if a well-bred puppy or adult from a good breeder is more appropriate for someone's situation, then there is no reason for them to feel guilty for getting a dog that meets their needs. __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance

07-03-2010, 06:14 AM	#45 (permalink)
Soundtrack Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,576	Again, "show points" are not just about beauty. If the dog moves correctly and is structurally sound, then it is better able to live an active, normal life. In breeding or evaluating seminars I have attended the majority of emphasis is on correct structure and movement. Besides, if you have decided you want a Basset Hound, usually part of the reason is the unique appearance of the breed. I've lost count of the number of people who've asked me when their pet-quality basset will look like mine, or why their BYB adult doesn't look like mine. Sure, they love their dog, but it's not what they had wanted. If you're not interested in the qualities that make a basset a basset, then why not just get a mutt? They are also great dogs, and also need homes. The main problem with a breeder that does not show or trial is that they are not subjecting themselves to "peer review". When you are showing/trialing your dogs, they are not only being evaluated by the judge but also by other breeders - and not just while competing. They are observing your dogs' temperament, condition, health, how you treat your dogs etc. - and not just one dog, they evaluate you based on all the dogs you bring out over time. And breeders who show/trial also have more opportunities to learn, from networking, discussions, breed club publications and seminars. The breeder who does not compete usually has only their own, usually misinformed, opinion to go on whether their dog should be bred or not. What is a dog show? What is a dog show? \| Ruffly Speaking (Cardigan Welsh Corgis, rescue dogs, and bossiness galore) __________________ Rosie-Ch Soundtrack Cracklin' Rose CGN AGN RA Am RN TT Melody-Ch Soundtrack Unchained Melody TT Sailor-Ch Soundtrack Expedition Sailor RN TT Chili-Ch Soundtrack Spice Up Your Life Curry-Ch Soundtrack Canadian Brass Pepper-Ch Pennieslogon Living La Vida Loca CGN Vina-Ch Soundtrack Grand Illusion Leila-Ch Soundtrack Almost Paradise Deela-Ch Soundtrack Wink Of An Eye Hermione - Soundtrack Spellbound Eowyn - Soundtrack Rain Dance Last edited by Soundtrack; 07-03-2010 at 09:12 AM.

07-05-2010, 09:02 AM	#49 (permalink)
Elvismom Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: new mexico Posts: 1,196	Although I run a rescue I do not believe that a rescue dog is right for everyone looking to get a new family member. We vet all our dogs, do temperment testing and try very hard to match a potential adopter up with the right dog for them. Some people, though, have expectations that we would never be able to meet. Some of our dogs have problems that may never be overcome - either physically or emotionally. We would only adopt to a person with the experience and life style to cope with those probelmes. A good rescue is probably as selective as a good breeder. Anyone whose first concern is for the animals will do their best to insure the sale or adoption is for the dog's lifetime, but will always take respsonibility for the dog if it doesn't work out. Mistakes can happen and situations can change. Luckily there are a variety of places to find a dog that people can chose the type of sale or adoption that is right for them. __________________ Chris Foodslave, chauffer & doorperson to Elvis, Georgia, Ginger & Maggie, Crissy & Dart

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