Looking fro a Basset breeder - Page 2

smitte21 · 05-31-2010, 07:31 PM

Well you have your opinion and I have mine. That is why they are called opinions and everyone is entitled to one.

hig4s · 05-31-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitte21

Well you have your opinion and I have mine. That is why they are called opinions and everyone is entitled to one.

True that, but it might help if you stated your opinions as opinions, not as if they were facts.

By your definition of a reputable breeders, not one dog I've ever owned was from a reputable breeder. And I had one sweet 13in show quality beagle many years ago.

gsally · 06-01-2010, 12:23 AM

Finding a "reputable" affordable breeder is not easy. While I have made a vow not to make a quick/unethical purchase from a puppy mill. I'm not feeling like it's necessary for me to spend thousands of dollars on a pet that I have no intention of putting in a show ring. There has to be something in between that is acceptable but I have to tell you................that is hard to find!

I have faith that there is a basset out there somewhere just for me..........my basset quest has become quite an adventure. Meeting lots of interesting people and wonderful bassets along the way!

One thing is for sure, I'm storing up lots of love and when I finally bring my new basset home, she will be cherished and cared for like my child.
My heart and home is open..............I'm still searching.

smitte21 · 06-05-2010, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

True that, but it might help if you stated your opinions as opinions, not as if they were facts.

By your definition of a reputable breeders, not one dog I've ever owned was from a reputable breeder. And I had one sweet 13in show quality beagle many years ago.

You are right my definition of a reputable breeder is high. However I feel that there are far too many dogs out there in shelters and rescues for it to be done any other way. I was duped into buying from someone who didn't fit those standards the first time, someone who just produced pets and we lost that first dog to cancer at 3 1/2 and felt the heartbreak that goes along with it so yes I feel very strongly in my view that you either do it right or you don't do it at all. I try every day to keep others from making that same mistake I made, to try and save them the pain and agony of losing one so young.

hig4s · 06-05-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitte21

You are right my definition of a reputable breeder is high. However I feel that there are far too many dogs out there in shelters and rescues for it to be done any other way. I was duped into buying from someone who didn't fit those standards the first time, someone who just produced pets and we lost that first dog to cancer at 3 1/2 and felt the heartbreak that goes along with it so yes I feel very strongly in my view that you either do it right or you don't do it at all. I try every day to keep others from making that same mistake I made, to try and save them the pain and agony of losing one so young.

While I agree that there are far too many dogs in shelters, I don't see where that has anything to do with what standards one considers to be required for a breeder to be reputable. And you sort of defeat your own argument by stating that helping to find a reputable breeder is to try and save people from the pain of losing a dog young. Fact is pure bred dog, do the the in breeding, even in reputable lines, to get the "Best quality dog" have many more health issues and shorter life expectancies than mixed breed dogs. Dogs That Changed the World - Selective Breeding Problems - Genetics | Nature

smitte21 · 06-06-2010, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

While I agree that there are far too many dogs in shelters, I don't see where that has anything to do with what standards one considers to be required for a breeder to be reputable. And you sort of defeat your own argument by stating that helping to find a reputable breeder is to try and save people from the pain of losing a dog young. Fact is pure bred dog, do the the in breeding, even in reputable lines, to get the "Best quality dog" have many more health issues and shorter life expectancies than mixed breed dogs. Dogs That Changed the World - Selective Breeding Problems - Genetics | Nature

The problem is all this hubbub about hybrid vigor has absolutely no way of being proven, show me the statistics of where they have run long term studies on any line of hybrids so that they can truly be compared with some of the well bred purebreds and then maybe I'll buy it but till then it's just heresay.

My breeders dogs routinely live to the ages of 15 and 16 and she practices some line breeding and some outcrossing, tell me how many bassets do you know of that are living much longer than that? She has years of experience in the breed and knows what she is doing and with all of her years of experience knows what sort of health and temperament issue reside in any line that she has produced. Tell me how many of these designer breed dogs who can say that, who know their pedigrees backwards and forwards and know what sort of issues they need to be striving to rid the breed of? I bet you I can count them on one hand.

Yes there are some breeders who have bred dogs to have such exagerated features so as to cause many problems. However line breeding and inbreeding are very helpful tools in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing and can help to rid the breed of many of it's health issues. This also goes along with testing, trailing and competing in various venues and knowing what your lines strengths and weaknesses are.

hig4s · 06-06-2010, 05:42 PM

". . . Steven N. Austad, PhD, a professor and researcher on aging at the Department of Cellular and Structural Biology at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio, says besides looking at small dogs, people looking for the longest-lived dogs also should look at mixed breed dogs and females.
"Female dogs tend to live a bit longer, although it's not as pronounced as it is with humans," Austad says.
Many purebred dogs come with a laundry list of health issues, which can cut into their life spans. Some are specific just to one breed, others can be a problem in many breeds.
"Mutts haven't gone through the inbreeding, so they should live longer, or at least be healthier than your purebred dogs," Austad says. . . "

Perhaps if people still bred dogs for just for their original purposes, mostly hunting and working, it might be different. But most pure bred dogs today are bred for an on paper standard, which is correct only in the eyes of the of the kennel club executives that wrote it, not even necessarily in the eyes of the rest of the members of the club.

There seems to be a fair amount of contention just in the basset organizations as to whether the current conformation standard is correct or if the trend toward bigger, bulkier, and floppier has reduced their ability to do what they were first bred for. I perfer smaller lighter bassets myself, even though I no longer hunt. And don't see how breeding for bigger is a good thing, as it is statistically show that smaller dogs also live longer.

smitte21 · 06-07-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

". . . Steven N. Austad, PhD, a professor and researcher on aging at the Department of Cellular and Structural Biology at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio, says besides looking at small dogs, people looking for the longest-lived dogs also should look at mixed breed dogs and females.
"Female dogs tend to live a bit longer, although it's not as pronounced as it is with humans," Austad says.
Many purebred dogs come with a laundry list of health issues, which can cut into their life spans. Some are specific just to one breed, others can be a problem in many breeds.
"Mutts haven't gone through the inbreeding, so they should live longer, or at least be healthier than your purebred dogs," Austad says. . . "

Perhaps if people still bred dogs for just for their original purposes, mostly hunting and working, it might be different. But most pure bred dogs today are bred for an on paper standard, which is correct only in the eyes of the of the kennel club executives that wrote it, not even necessarily in the eyes of the rest of the members of the club.

There seems to be a fair amount of contention just in the basset organizations as to whether the current conformation standard is correct or if the trend toward bigger, bulkier, and floppier has reduced their ability to do what they were first bred for. I perfer smaller lighter bassets myself, even though I no longer hunt. And don't see how breeding for bigger is a good thing, as it is statistically show that smaller dogs also live longer.

Hmm... once again you have shown no statistical proof of this hybred vigor. Your quote clearly states that these mutts "SHOULD LIVE LONGER". I can tell you I've seen many mutts with just as many health issues as any other dog. And as for smaller dogs living longer statistically ... well smaller breeds yes I'll give you that one but there is no such statistic that says smaller bassets live longer than larger ones. Do I believe that the bassets should be kept in decent condition and in proper weight, ABSOLUTELY and yes I have seen many bassets in the ring who could stand to lose a few pounds, one of them being my girl, but I'm talking a pound or two in her case. However I can show you several 60 lb. bassets (in perfect weight) who are fine examples of the standard who have lived to 15 and 16 years old.

Here's one who died not long ago at 15 1/2.

This is Kenni years ago while she was being shown:

I believe this picture of Kenni is from last summer:

This is picture of her was taken recently before she died:

hig4s · 06-07-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitte21

And as for smaller dogs living longer statistically ... well smaller breeds yes I'll give you that one but there is no such statistic that says smaller bassets live longer than larger ones.

One, I never said smaller bassets out live larger ones. When I said smaller dogs, I meant breeds.

And as far as statistical evidence, you can't show my any that says mutts don't live longer either. There isn't any.

But in my experience as someone that bred dogs, and has family members that breed, (my father bred hunting dogs, my kid sister has been a reputable professional breeder for over 20 years, actually rated in the top 10 in the nation by AKC a few years back), and as someone who has owned and been around many dogs both mutts and pure bred for many years, the empirical evidence to me is overwhelming. We have had many mutts live near or over 20 years, not so with pure bred dogs.

smitte21 · 06-08-2010, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hig4s

One, I never said smaller bassets out live larger ones. When I said smaller dogs, I meant breeds.

And as far as statistical evidence, you can't show my any that says mutts don't live longer either. There isn't any.

But in my experience as someone that bred dogs, and has family members that breed, (my father bred hunting dogs, my kid sister has been a reputable professional breeder for over 20 years, actually rated in the top 10 in the nation by AKC a few years back), and as someone who has owned and been around many dogs both mutts and pure bred for many years, the empirical evidence to me is overwhelming. We have had many mutts live near or over 20 years, not so with pure bred dogs.

So you've just made my point for me. We're going to have to agree to disagree here as I will still go for a well bred dog who's pedigree and health history I can research over a mutt any day. No pedigree evidence or health history you are going to be able to find in any database on a mutt. That's all I'm saying...

05-31-2010, 07:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
smitte21 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: WI Posts: 295	Well you have your opinion and I have mine. That is why they are called opinions and everyone is entitled to one. __________________ Proud owner handler of AKC/UKC Ch. Olde Fashion Agent 99, CGC, TDInc. and Beauregard Smith, CGC www.savybassets.net

06-01-2010, 12:23 AM	#13 (permalink)
gsally Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: PA Posts: 275	Finding a breeder challenge Finding a "reputable" affordable breeder is not easy. While I have made a vow not to make a quick/unethical purchase from a puppy mill. I'm not feeling like it's necessary for me to spend thousands of dollars on a pet that I have no intention of putting in a show ring. There has to be something in between that is acceptable but I have to tell you................that is hard to find! I have faith that there is a basset out there somewhere just for me..........my basset quest has become quite an adventure. Meeting lots of interesting people and wonderful bassets along the way! One thing is for sure, I'm storing up lots of love and when I finally bring my new basset home, she will be cherished and cared for like my child. My heart and home is open..............I'm still searching.

06-06-2010, 05:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
hig4s Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 112	". . . Steven N. Austad, PhD, a professor and researcher on aging at the Department of Cellular and Structural Biology at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio, says besides looking at small dogs, people looking for the longest-lived dogs also should look at mixed breed dogs and females. "Female dogs tend to live a bit longer, although it's not as pronounced as it is with humans," Austad says. Many purebred dogs come with a laundry list of health issues, which can cut into their life spans. Some are specific just to one breed, others can be a problem in many breeds. "Mutts haven't gone through the inbreeding, so they should live longer, or at least be healthier than your purebred dogs," Austad says. . . " Perhaps if people still bred dogs for just for their original purposes, mostly hunting and working, it might be different. But most pure bred dogs today are bred for an on paper standard, which is correct only in the eyes of the of the kennel club executives that wrote it, not even necessarily in the eyes of the rest of the members of the club. There seems to be a fair amount of contention just in the basset organizations as to whether the current conformation standard is correct or if the trend toward bigger, bulkier, and floppier has reduced their ability to do what they were first bred for. I perfer smaller lighter bassets myself, even though I no longer hunt. And don't see how breeding for bigger is a good thing, as it is statistically show that smaller dogs also live longer. Last edited by hig4s; 06-06-2010 at 05:48 PM.

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